Calling all 914/6 owners past & present, Need advice Options

[GaroldShaffer]

It's been 3 1/2 LONG years since I sold my beloved 73 914 2.0 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) to help with a down payment on our new house. In two years I will turn 40 and plan to be a 914 owner once again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) .

So starts my quest for knowledge on 914/6's. I have driven many a 914 and plent 911s and feel that a 914/6 is what I want to get. I know two years is long way a way, but I just started my 914 fund, my wife agrees with my two year plan to save and purchase my NEW 914/6.

This car will be my sunny day driver / weekend car with maybe a driver eds event twice a year (never done one before). My questions are what type of issues are seen with a six? I know all about the 914 rust, been there, done that! Is there any reason a conversion car (done right ) is better of worse than and orginal six? What should I look for to make sure a conversion to a six is done correctly. Of course, any 914 that I think I am interested in enough to purchase I will have PPI done. Please help a fellow 914 addict. Thanks - Garold

One more thing, to any six owners (914 owners in general) in the Chicagoland / South Bend IN area I would love to check out your car and talk shop. I live in Portage Indiana, about 40 miles East of Chicago. Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[seanery]

Hey,
another Indiana guy! WooHoo!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif)

[Lawrence]

These are frequently discussed issues...

Issues with an original /6: there are several hard-to-get parts, mostly trim, etc, if you want to restore a perfect concours car. Of course, the /6 shares the same rust and chassis integrity concerns of it's little brother, the /4. Some people believe that a stock /6, while fun to drive and has that great sound, can be a bit anemic for horsepower.

914/6 conversions: Very popular, and have been done correctly with motors that range from 2.0 with weber carbs to a 3.6 with complete fuel injection. How fast do you want to go? How much money do you have? Some of these projects are relatively inexpensive (7-12k+) and some... well, bring cubic money.

If you want to do your own conversion - check the conversion info on the 914 Club Downloads Page.

You didn't mention if you're looking to buy a ready to drive car or a project. Buying someone elses project (mostly complete or completed) is a way to buy for often pennies on the dollar.

There are often /6 conversion cars that come up for sale here, or on the Rennlist. If in California, there is usually someone nearby that's qualified to go give it a quick once-over to see if it's worth spending 50-75 bucks on a PPI.

The guy closest to you for a 914 PPI is Brad Mayeur in East Peoria, Illinois. If you find a car that you want inspected, call him at 309-694-1797. He's been working on 914s since they were new (and he was a dealer mechanic.)

Hope this helps,
Lawrence

[GaroldShaffer]

If looking for /6 conversion, I want one that is done. I want to drive (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . I know Brad, he fixed FI problem on my 73. A great guy!

The car I would want would be as rust free as a 914 can be. Not a show car, but the best damn 914/6 driver I can find! As for pricing, I think about $15K would be my max, unless my company stock goes up for a change. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

[seanery]

I think you can find a good car for that kind of money.
I would look in Cal, AZ, TX for those. I don't think you'll find them in our neck of the woods.
Unless you buy one of mine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) but they aren't for sale.

There is a factory 6 for sale on ebay right now.

I've got a 2.7-6 '74 and a '72 with a 2.0-4 that is gonna get a 3.2-6 really soon (I think).
Both are Cali cars, the '74 is perfect and really solid, the '72 is rust free, but still had a broken piece somehow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[campbellcj]

I think one of the major decision points is to figure out if you want a "stock-ish" car, a street hot-rod, a full blown race car, or some combination/compromise thereof.

I would not be afraid of conversion cars and in fact they will probably offer more performance bang-for-the-buck, with collectibility/resale value being the trade off. (Factory sixes almost always get higher sales prices than equivalent conversions).

A 73 or later conversion will usually have a better (side-shifter) transmission, interior, and probably suspension (swaybars) than a factory six or early conversion.

The other big factor is IF you plan to do any competitive driving events with the car, read the pertinent rule books and figure out what class you want to fit into and whether you can be safe, fun and competitive in the class with your budget. Otherwise you could end up with a $15K car that's a blast to drive but is classified with the $100K monsters and super experienced drivers who would leave you in the dust.

[Ferg]

Having just recently bought my conversion I agree the way to do it is buy someone else's completed project. The bigger motor, and having a show worthy car for less money than a comparable "real" six was my reasoning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) Ferg

[silver six]

The following lists the various ways to go in buying an original or converted 6:

1. The Concourse 6: You could buy an original 6, with all original components. Pros: Some people like the idea that they are driving an original factory car. Cons: Really not all that fast. Not a car people feel comfortable driving hard or often. Cost: A concourse 6 can be expensive. Expect to pay about $25,000 for a decent example. If you plan on restoring a 6 to concourse state yourself, expect to pay $30,000 to $50,000.

2. The 6 to 6 Conversion: This is an original 6 that's been upgraded to a fatter 2.2, 2.7, 3.0, 3.2, 3.6 (or larger) flat 6 engine. Some people drop-in non-Porsche engines, although that is not my personal preference. Typically it will also need suspension, brake, and often transmission upgrades. Pros: It can be devastatingly fast. When converted correctly, the 6 to 6 conversions also tend to keep their value better than comparable 914s. Cons: Not all 6 to 6 conversions have been done correctly. There is tremendous variability between different conversion cars. Typically the conversion will not have been done exactly as you want it and you will have to "complete" the upgrade.

There are always a hundred variables involved in the state of a particular car. For example, very few 6 to 6 conversions have had proper transmission upgrades. Some people have argued that the 901 tranny is strong enough for a 6 to 6 conversion. Others disagree. My feeling is that a 901 tranny is geared too low for daily street driving in a 6 to 6. Your cruising gear is non-existent. Also you never use first. So the options are (1) regear the 901 at a total cost of around $3000 to $4000 (done right) or (2) step up to the more reliable, stronger, and properly geared 915. I tend to think the 915 is the way to go, not only because it was designed to handle 100 hp more than the 901 (approximately 300 hp max v. the 901's 200 hp max), but it's already pre-geared. In any event, a tranny upgrade, like many auxiliary upgrades in the 6 to 6 conversion makes the total cost creep slowly upward. (Notice that many 6 owners on this board are in denial about how much their car "really" costs and prefer to ignore the receipts than to ever add them all up. I'm one of them.)

Cost: These cars, when done correctly are also not cheap. Expect to pay $13,000 at minimum for a decent 2.7 conversion. Expect around $15,000 for a decent 3.0 conversion. Expect about $16,000 for a decent 3.2 conversion. If you want to convert a 914-6 yourself, estimates range from about $18,000 to $25,000. Of course there is no "real" top end to the costs you can incur in restoring a classic car. Ask Andy, or Ginter about this. If you want a quality paint job, add about $5000 to the above figures.

3. The 4 to 6 Conversion: Some people have begun with a 914-4 and dropped in a flat 6. Pros: Like the 6 to 6 conversion discussed above the 4 to 6 conversion is equally fast. This car is less expensive to buy. It is probably the least expensive 6 conversion available. It's very hard for others (except for 914 fanatics like those on this BBS) to tell that you are driving a 4 to 6 conversion and not a factory 6 (or a 6 to 6), especially if you've rebadged your car. Most people don't care. Cons: The 4 to 6 conversion does not hold its value as well as the 6 to 6. Also Porsche snobs will give you a hard time for driving a 4 regardless of which 911, flat 6 engine you've dropped into it. If you decide to convert the car yourself you will have to spend time and money upgrading to components, like the 5 stud wheel conversion, and oil tank, that already come stock on an original 914-6. Cost: Costs for this car typically track the 6 to 6 conversion costs, minus $6000 to $8000. Costs for converting a 4 to 6 car yourself are similar to a 6 to 6. Expect to pay $7000 to $10000 less for your 914-4 body (than the 914-6). But also expect to pay maybe $1000 to $2000 more in parts upgrading your 4 to get it like the 6. Total cost savings of converting a 4 to 6 over converting a 6 to 6 is likely somewhere in the neighborhood of $5000 to $70000.

Hope this helps,

Douglas

[anthony]

Personally, I think the six to six conversion makes much more sense or better yet buying an original six with a hot engine already installed.

Here are the four vs. original six numbers I've come up with:


..........................4.........................6
chassis............3000.................12000
paint................5000..................5000
conv parts.......5000.....................0
3.2L engine.....7500..................7500
915 trans........4000..................4000
5 lug................1200.....................0
Wheels/tires....1000..................1000
......................26700................29500

orig eng...........(300)...............(1500)
orig. tran.........(300)...............(-1000)

......................26100................27000


In the end you have spent about the same amount but the 4 conversion is worth $12-15K and the real six is worth maybe $18-22k.

[silver six]

bump

[GaroldShaffer]

OK, what does bump mean???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[GaroldShaffer]

I would assume the difference between the sizes of the six motors Douglas is talking about in a conversion is more HP. Is any one six motor better than the other?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

[Joe Bob]

OK, what does bump mean???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Gets the topic back to the top of the page......

Nicer than HEY>>>>>I WANT SOME MORE ANSWERS.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif)

[seanery]

The 3.2 is the pinnacle of the 'easy' motors to install. The 3.6 has the most hp (and is newest) but takes a little more thought and more parts to make work correctly (the oil cooler comes to mind, there isn't one on a 3.6). 3.0 motors are good, 2.7 can be good, but there are things to look for (pulled head studs) 2.5, 2.4, 2.2 are similar to the 2.7 but should be less stressed, but still the headstuds should be checked. 2.0 had two flavors of cases aluminum (early) and magnesium (later). The 2.0 aluminum cases are used for quite a bit of the 2.x race motors because of their durability.

My next conversion will be a 3.2. I'm currently working on a 2.7 for my race car (wish I would have bought a 3.0) but $ was tight and it will be a nice, fresh motor when done.

I hope this helps and wasn't just a bunch of rambling.

[silver six]

To second what Seanery said, the 3.0 and the 3.2 are likely the best conversion engines available for the 914. Brad has confirmed this sentiment many times. This is why they work better than other engines:

1. Durability: The pre 3.0 engines (the 2.7, the 2.4, etc.) are much less reliable than the 3.0 and 3.2 liters.

2. Ease of Installation: The 3.0/3.2 engines are just as easy to install as the earlier engines and much easer to install than larger and newer engines (3.6, 3.8, etc.). Also remember with larger engines you must go with stronger trannys. With the 3.0/3.2 you can get away with the 914's stock 901 tranny (although I personally would not recommend this tranny as a long-term solution; I think Brad would back me up on this).

3. Cost: Although a little more expensive, the 3.0/3.2 engines are similarly priced as compared to earlier engines. The 3.0/3.2 cost about the same to maintain as earlier engines. The 3.0/3.2 are significantly less expensive to buy and maintain as compared to subsequent larger engines. Of course, if cost is no object then the larger engines (3.6, 3.8 etc.) would be preferable.

4. Subjective Feel: The fuel injected 3.0/3.2 starts right up and idles smoothly and continues to do so all the way till warm-up. These engines are very well behaved while producing more power than their predecesors. They also make great sounds.

Douglas

[Steve]

I put a 2.7 in my 914-4 back in 86 and beat the crap out of it until it finally died two years ago. I'm now running a 3.2. I miss the sound of the webers on my 2.7 but I don't miss the weber hassle. The 3.2 is a joke to install in a 914. All the 914-6 tin just bolts on and wiring the stock DME harness into the stock harness is beyond simple. I dumped my relay board and bought a matching connector for the relay board harness plug and just wired it up. It's so bizarre to drive my 914 to work every day and not have to work on it or tune it up every weekend. I'm still in shock. The DME injection is priceless. It has the reliability of a Honda but it drives like a bat out of hell.
I bought my euro 3.2 for $5000 bucks complete from a wrecking yard. The KEP conversion is also cheap. I think it was around $600.00 for the adapter ring and clutch assembly. I'm running the stock 914 gear box. I baby first gear and beat the crap out of 2nd - 5th.
You can pick up a conversion pretty cheap. Keep an eye on the Auto trader magazine, panorama and if you live in Cal. go to the porsche events.
With the 3.6 motor you have to cut the crap out of the 914-6 tin to make it work. It's also a major hassle to turn the fuel injection around so it doesn't hit the trunk.
Getting to the 2nd set of spark plugs under the motor is also a pain.
The 3.2 does not have any of these hassles for half the price of a 993 motor.
The 3.0 is also a great buy but the CIS is not nearly as good as the DME and its a little more work to clear the engine lid release lever.

Steve