Stage II blues Stuff Happens, In the clutch? or in the shift linkage? Options

[forrestkhaag]

Now that the 3.0 is running fine / running not moving.... I can’t seem to get the gears to engage unless the engine is off. We adjusted the slack out of the cable to the degree that it took a gorilla's pedal pressure to depress it / and i caved in the firewall tube in the process. Kennedy Engineering said a Stage II clutch on a conversion has a higher pedal pressure to depress it but not anything as significant as I am experiences.

I have Rich Johnson's shift rod so that is the only thing in the shift linkage that is new or different and I can get the box to dry shift all gears but get a harsh crunch if an engagement of any gear is attempted while depressing the clutch if while the engine is running. . Any thoughts or procedures from sage experience ans this s#*% just happened.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif) ?

[Mark Henry]

My buddy used a POS header and he had to make a bracket to offset (drop) the front bolt of the clutch pulley assembly...the result was a much easier pedal action.
I believe he dropped the front bolt about an inch. The bracket was just a flat bar, bit of an offset crook in it with a hole on each end and yes, the cable will hang down a bit.

The only other option will be to fab a hydraulic clutch cylinder and slave. If you search there's been a few threads on this mod.

[forrestkhaag]

Thanks Mark: Very interesting issue I had not thought of.. I am eliminating any shifter linkage issues today and will see if the alignment of the pulley is an issue / although, my901 tranny is the same as for the 4 and the shift fork is attached to it in the same place..

It leeds me back to an issue with shift rod and shifter. Very wierd that I can "dry shift" it in all gears but not when the engine is running... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[BillC]

It leeds me back to an issue with shift rod and shifter. Very wierd that I can "dry shift" it in all gears but not when the engine is running... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

It's not really weird. That sounds exactly like stereotypical clutch drag. When the engine is running, there's too much drag from the clutch for the synchronizer to overcome and you can't get into gear. With the engine off, you can push through the synchro and get it into gear.

[brant]

is there any chance that the machining measurements on the flywheel were off?

is it a resurfaced stock flywheel or new

I once had a stock flywheel resurfaced and the machine shop failed to get the measurement correct between the two faces that must be within spec for the clutch release to be correct.

just an idea.
sounds like the clutch is dragging for some reason

brant

[mb911]

Could it also be that just a touch of surface rust on the flywheel caused the clutch to seize to the flywheel or pressure plate and needs to be jarred free?. Saw this happen on my dads 356 a few years back

[Steve]

When I had there stage 2 with my 3.2, it had a special throw out bearing. The clutch was harder to push but not unbearable.
I also forgot, per there instructions, you have to machine the flywheel to remove the groove. Are you using there flywheel or adapter ring? I used there adapter ring.

[porschetub]

Now that the 3.0 is running fine / running not moving.... I can’t seem to get the gears to engage unless the engine is off. We adjusted the slack out of the cable to the degree that it took a gorilla's pedal pressure to depress it / and i caved in the firewall tube in the process. Kennedy Engineering said a Stage II clutch on a conversion has a higher pedal pressure to depress it but not anything as significant as I am experiences.

I have Rich Johnson's shift rod so that is the only thing in the shift linkage that is new or different and I can get the box to dry shift all gears but get a harsh crunch if an engagement of any gear is attempted while depressing the clutch if while the engine is running. . Any thoughts or procedures from sage experience ans this s#*% just happened.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif) ?

Forrest is everything in the system new and in good condition ? eg pedal bushes,cable,cable roller etc ?.
And yes they do dry shift fine,its turns to crap with the engine running however.
Is the clutch aligned correctly with a clutch tool,did you lube the input shaft spline?
Good luck.

[SirAndy]

KEP Stage II clutch, pressure-plate and throw-out bearing for my 3.6L using a stock 901.
Note the ring-gear, which is needed ...

The clutch pedal is a bit stiffer than stock, but not by much.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-179-1185423229.jpg)

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[Chris914n6]

My Kennedy Stage 2 isn't that much stiffer.

Are all the pivots greased?
Is the clutch cable ground and now welded?
Can you get a helper to see if the fork and TO bearing are moving like they should?
Or can you move it with a pry bar?
Are all the clutch parts done right?

Few months ago I bought one of those usb inspection cameras that was talked about. Best $10 toy/tool ever.

[mihai914]

+1

This happened to me years ago after installing a freshly machined flywheel and pressure plate. The car sat for a couple of months for winter storage. I tried the jarring method but eventually just pilled the transmission out. It doesn't take much surface rust.

Could it also be that just a touch of surface rust on the flywheel caused the clutch to seize to the flywheel or pressure plate and needs to be jarred free?. Saw this happen on my dads 356 a few years back

[forrestkhaag]

Great Input guys. Very much appreciated. The KEP package included a new ring gear, clutch, t/o bearing, etc. all matched to my 3.0 build.

Only reuse was the SC flywheel to which the KEP ring gear fit perfectly / and the starter has no issue mating and starting the engine on this assembly.

Clutch cable is fairly new and without issues. Pulley wheel is new. My helper (and he wouldn't like that term) has judiciously observed the action while on the lift and all seem to be working as it should be. We looked at his 901 tranny on his shop floor awaiting his 2.7 to be completed and scoped the t/o bearing and fork to confirm that some moron (me) hasn't installed the t/o bearing backwards / It can't be done as it turns out (no pun intended) so that part is good to go.

I have to believe it is the shift rod assembly trying to find its correct relationship with the shifter. I could be crazy but the clutch parts are all new save the fork and the change has been in the 6 shift rod by my pal Rich Johnson. He has done a few of these things and his work is impeccable as to fit and finish / so tomorrow its a day of playing with the linkage to confirm that the moron is in SoCal and not in some other place.
pix just because its so purty...

[76-914]

This won't help your situation one damned bit but I wonder why the clutch cable's pulley diameter couldn't be increased a bit to overcome the beefed up clutches? The carrier would have to be slightly modified to match but that wouldn't too difficult.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Steve]

That still sounds like a clutch problem. After I installed the 915 gear box, I could not get it into gear without grinding. I had to increase the pedal travel to get it to engage properly. You could have bad parts or maybe you need to add a washer under the pivot for the fork. How much play is there before the throw out bearing hits the pressure plate? There should be very little play.

[Dave_Darling]

This won't help your situation one damned bit but I wonder why the clutch cable's pulley diameter couldn't be increased a bit to overcome the beefed up clutches?

How would that help? The pulley simply changes the direction of pull when the pedal is pushed.

You could change the pedal effort by lengthening the throw-out arm, but that would increase pedal travel to get the same amount of disengagement.



Speaking of which, it sounds like the problem in the OP is that the clutch isn't letting go. Why it isn't is a good question, though. Might take pulling the trans off the engine to see what is going on.

--DD

[porschetub]

Speaking of which, it sounds like the problem in the OP is that the clutch isn't letting go. Why it isn't is a good question, though. Might take pulling the trans off the engine to see what is going on.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) seems the only way to go @ this stage,frustrating as it is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .

[Steve]

Before pulling the trans, check to see how much play there is between the throwout bearing and the pressure plate. This will let you know whether or not you need to put a washer behind the pivot on the trans.

[colingreene]

put it in first, motor off, then push the clutch in on flat clear ground see if the car tries to take off, that would isolate if you have a clutch drag issue.

[porschetub]

put it in first, motor off, then push the clutch in on flat clear ground see if the car tries to take off, that would isolate if you have a clutch drag issue.

Yes but that will work to some point ,really think something is wrong in side there time to have a look,anyway what would I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[porschetub]

put it in first, motor off, then push the clutch in on flat clear ground see if the car tries to take off, that would isolate if you have a clutch drag issue.

Really something is causing this inside ,not going to go away with a few comments