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> Too High Expectations of price vs rust
nditiz1
post Jun 17 2017, 02:55 PM
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Since I have been ramping up my search and now have wads of cash to throw at a seller I find myself not being satisfied with the cost of the car vs the rust eating away with it. I have gotten great words of advice from the people on this forum.

"Buy the best you can afford"

"Don't buy something that has rust issues unless you plan to do a full restoration"

The first 914 I looked at was one well out my price range. It was a orange 71, ChritopherB's in the classified section. His car is well sorted and while some of the modifications it has is taking away from its purist roots it was still a blast to ride in and see up close. 15k is outside of my budget, but I wanted to see what it could get for informational purposes.

Next, I was sure i was going to buy the 73 2.0 that I saw in the classifieds. Owned by a previous PCA member and recently in their best bargains flyer. I drove down with a trailer 3 hrs to pick it up only to be dissatisfied with the rust in the seams and the floor rusted through in a few parts. Yes the Hell holes were nice, but I don't know whats lurking behind the rockers. Also, she felt loose in the test drive. Brakes were definitely shot as slamming on them did nothing to slow the car even though the brake pedal was stiff. 2 new webers (1k) made the engine appear nice and the car idled fine, but seemed to rev up and linger a little during the run. So I passed on that one, 7k (in budget)

Then came a local 75 1.8 with no options, but Fuchs. Rusted pretty bad in the door jambs and paint bubbling in places, rust through in the rear trunk. Interior shot to hell and smelled like cigarettes. This car had dual dellortos. This car felt as loose as the 73 and was jetted too high. You needed to pump the gas in first in second. Shifter was a little less sloppy than the 73, easier to find the gears. At 5500 it seemed, from pictures, to be a sweet deal, but up close I had to pass.

Today I saw an original owner 76 2.0. A/C, not working, Fuchs and nothing else. The car went to Germany and back and has been owned by the same lady since new. This one had several spots on the floor pan that needed to be addressed. There was significant rust in the right headlight chamber, below the light itself. It had been repainted at one time and was involved in a rear collision in it's first 5,000 miles, but the seams and body were in good order. It rode nice and the FI was still on the 2.0. Brakes felt a little better than the 73. She has it listed for 10,100, off Hagerty, but seemed willing to negotiate down to under 8k.

So if you are still reading this journey, thanks. I am just curious as to what other enthusiasts thoughts are. I mean while I can't afford the 15k rust free 71 2.0, I feel like for 7 - 9k I should be able to find a solid car. What I mean by solid is, needs some paint, minor body work, minor rust repair, full brake rebuild and possible engine work, interior that needs to be redone, driver. Maybe I'm wrong.

Also, I get caught up in the hype sometimes about the 73 and 74 2.0's. More so the 73 because they are the best years. Looking at the 76 today had the price been 5k I probably would have pulled the trigger even with its rust issues. How much are two new floor pans, installed?

So go ahead and reset my thinking. I could use a reality check. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)
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mepstein
post Jun 17 2017, 03:17 PM
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http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=307743
In your price range and not too far away. Might not be pretty - yet but a lot of the heavy lifting has been done. Get a maaco paint job and fix the remaining details.
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tomh
post Jun 17 2017, 04:36 PM
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If i would have known about this fourm before i purchased my first 914 i would never have bought one knowing all the pitfalls,that would have been a bummer becase i have since bought 2 and have never looked back.
Of course buy as much as you can afford upfront but don't be scared away just because you can't have a concourse condition car,just get one and start enjoying having a classic Porsche and do what you can with it with the help from all these dedicated guys on this fourm. I couldn't have did anything with out this resource.
I hope i have helped you a little,now I'm going out and enjoy driving my 914 the rest of the day.
Cheers!
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mzalanka
post Jun 17 2017, 06:26 PM
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15k or not, as has been said many times, there is no "rust free" teener.

I just completed a bare metal rotisserie resto (gratitude post to come shortly), dropped over $2K in new metal ALONE into the tub, and can guarantee there is still rust everywhere, inside the panels, the driver's long, in the tunnel, lurking - and has been since 1975, and will be until that date with the crusher finally comes.

If you aspire to join these inauspicious ranks, you must develop a comfort/tolerance with the tin worm. Recognize what is significant rust - in the longs, pedal area, under seat brackets, susp console - and realize the rest (trunk and headlite bucket, etc) is no big deal.

Also - as far as "budget" goes, any decent respray requiring bodywork will be at least $6k, more likely in the $10k plus range.

If that 76 otherwise sang to you, forget about the headlight buckets and go for it. Drive it and love it and don't worry about paint or minor rust or the missing engine tin grommets.

otherwise, your search for a rust free budget Porsche might need to lead you to a galvanized 924/944, which are equally excellent cars.
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tomh
post Jun 17 2017, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE(mzalanka @ Jun 17 2017, 05:26 PM) *

15k or not, as has been said many times, there is no "rust free" teener.

I just completed a bare metal rotisserie resto (gratitude post to come shortly), dropped over $2K in new metal ALONE into the tub, and can guarantee there is still rust everywhere, inside the panels, the driver's long, in the tunnel, lurking - and has been since 1975, and will be until that date with the crusher finally comes.

If you aspire to join these inauspicious ranks, you must develop a comfort/tolerance with the tin worm. Recognize what is significant rust - in the longs, pedal area, under seat brackets, susp console - and realize the rest (trunk and headlite bucket, etc) is no big deal.

Also - as far as "budget" goes, any decent respray requiring bodywork will be at least $6k, more likely in the $10k plus range.

If that 76 otherwise sang to you, forget about the headlight buckets and go for it. Drive it and love it and don't worry about paint or minor rust or the missing engine tin grommets.
This is very well said
My thoughts exactly!
otherwise, your search for a rust free budget Porsche might need to lead you to a galvanized 924/944, which are equally excellent cars.

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tomh
post Jun 17 2017, 06:49 PM
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My quick reply didn't work.
I definitely want to agree with the previous post.
My thoughts exactly!
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914 7T3
post Jun 17 2017, 06:53 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Mechanically they will all need work and will all have rust.

I am driving a '73 2.0 that the seller was asking $12k for and managed to purchase it for $8.5K.



Mine is bubbling on the surface in certain areas and has a hell hole issue and previous front trunk pan repair as per these photos.


Attached Image Attached Image

However, all in all its a great driver that gets compliments everywhere it goes. I can drive it as is for thousands of miles until I am ready to restore it. Glad I bought it and have driven over 500 miles in 6 weeks.

The right car for you is out there, just keep looking.Attached Image
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ThreeV8s
post Jun 17 2017, 07:09 PM
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The likelihood of finding a non-basket case 914 of any year in the $7-9K range in this part of the country is slim. I have looked at plenty over the years that were advertised as being so much better than they were in that range, and they were shot. If a car is listed on the web, then the seller is probably savvy enough to look around and know approximately what his car is worth. There are always going to be unbelievable finds that people post on a forum like this, but the reality is that they don't happen for most of us, and the people that are paying high teens for a 1.7/1.8 car aren't advertising that they did. 914s along with 924s, 944s, and 928s, even 912s, are going up in value because air-cooled 911s are out of reach for many people now, just like the spillover effect that is happening with classic benzes, ferraris, etc. I completely understand the frustration and had almost given up several times. Best of luck and don't give up, but you could end up looking for a long time while values continue to increase. I have plenty of regret for cars i should have bought over the years. Sometimes you just have to say screw it and stretch the limit a bit.
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914Sixer
post Jun 17 2017, 07:19 PM
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Keep Looking ! DO NOT BE IN A HURRY.
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bandjoey
post Jun 17 2017, 08:22 PM
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BUY THE GOOD BODY and don't worry about how it runs or stops. Lots of mechanical help here and as the systems rebuild is not difficult. Get the car cheap enough with the least rust.
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SKL1
post Jun 17 2017, 09:01 PM
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what joey said...
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Larmo63
post Jun 17 2017, 09:24 PM
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In California, we don't really touch '76s because of the smog test issue. In my opinion, a '73 2.0 optioned car is best (other than a /6)

I don't know what your state's smog laws are, but it might be something to think about.

I agree that a solid body/chassis rules, all other systems can be repaired pretty easily. These are pretty simple machines.

Good luck!
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r_towle
post Jun 17 2017, 09:30 PM
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Not to burst your bubble but these cars are over 40 years old, never had rust proofing, and are never going to be rust free.
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raynekat
post Jun 17 2017, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 17 2017, 08:30 PM) *

Not to burst your bubble but these cars are over 40 years old, never had rust proofing, and are never going to be rust free.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) x 100

These are all very old cars and in most cases have not been that well cared for.
The metal used in these cars was not galvanized, so rust is definitely lurking in every crevice and cubby hole.
To find a really solid chassis will be a challenge without spending a good sum.
Then add in parts cost and labor if you need some help.
A proper ATE master cylinder is almost $300....and on and on.
You get end really dumping some money in these cars.

Right now it's next to impossible (I guess virtually impossible) to find a good solid early 911 for less than $40-50k.
914's will be following in roughly the same footsteps.
There aren't that many of them around any more, and most are in pretty poor shape.
Good ones or ones that have already been restored are likely going to be at least $15k or more.

I think you're kidding yourself in thinking a $7k 914 will be a bargain in the long run.
Just my experience from being in Porsches for over 30 years.
Others will have different thoughts or advice I'm sure.
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nditiz1
post Jun 17 2017, 09:42 PM
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Thank you to all. This really is good stuff I'm hearing. I need to be level set going into this.
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Lucky9146
post Jun 17 2017, 10:09 PM
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A quick review of Bring A Trailer for the last 2 years says that nice ones go for between $ 13k and 25k so that is a good place to research and just get a good feel for what things cost and the shape they are in. Setting your budget at 9k will most likely, but not certainly, mean you will sink money into repairing rust. As has been stated very well above find the most rust free one you can afford and fix the mechanical issues.

My personal search took over 2 years but I was looking for a 6 conversion. I did finally find one and it was an amazing car and it was not even finished! Hence my handle Lucky9146 because I really felt very lucky to have finally found the one I did.

That you have looked at several and are a bit discouraged does not mean it was a waste of time because you are really learning and your assessments demonstrate that. The more you look the more you know exactly what you are looking at and what you are looking for.

I still have a file of every car I looked at in my quest and most were bad. The unfortunate thing in my case was that the very first one I looked at was without a doubt the "right one" but not having the experience I flinched and told him I "wanted to think about it". When I came to my senses the next day he had decided not to sell. Ugh!

Best of luck! There is one out there
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porschetub
post Jun 17 2017, 11:03 PM
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My car is rust free,really ....yeh right only done 85K kilometers original,its in there and I have seen it not a lot but its not like it will stop,you can buy really nice car and its in there as I did,any external rust is a fair indicator of what's deeper from what I have learned on this forum.
As mentioned buy a good body restored car the rest is easy if you are DIY,our you can farm it out for way less than bodywork.
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BuddyV
post Jun 17 2017, 11:15 PM
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A few months ago, I bought a black 914 (partial repaint.... some original black paint left in the trunk) on this site. I paid a fair price for it, and MUCH more than I ever expected to pay for a 914. (I'm cheap, and got into these cars some 20 years ago BECAUSE they were also cheap.... like me)

i had been tinkering with my other 914 for a number of years...... when finally I realized that my lack of time, combined with my lack of skills, were keeping me from enjoying weekend drives in a "near perfect" 914, I pulled the trigger on this second 914.

I had buyers remorse as soon as I brought it home...... ONLY because I had never had a 914 that needed nothing. ..... NOTHING!!!
Weird feeling.

But now..... a few months later...... I am amazed at the ease of driving this car on the rare Sunday that I get to spend on me-time. It starts...... warms up...... and well.... needs nothing but a wash after.

I still enjoy wondering when I can make time for the other 914 in the garage, but buying "as much as I could afford" feels very, very right.

Keep looking and buy the right car for you from the right seller.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)


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Edward Blume
post Jun 17 2017, 11:21 PM
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Cast a wide net. Write down what you want. Don't settle.

Spend more for quality, much less for items needing repair. Since they both come out the same in the end, I'd just spend more for what you want.

Keep a reserve for repairs and maintenance.

It won't get easier in a few years.

Good luck!
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Lucky9146
post Jun 19 2017, 09:09 AM
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Come back and let us know what you find in your quest. Many would like to know how it is going and what you come across. I agree write down what you want and don't settle. Don't be in a hurry. Best of luck in your search.
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