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> Porsche building cars without a VIN? (911), 914s also, maybe?
74ravenna
post Jul 11 2017, 04:53 PM
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Hi all,

Last week a coworker sent me a photo of a 911 without a VIN.
Its a factory built race car that the owner bought new around 1970 (i think) and put the car away, never really drove it i guess.
To look at the photo you'd think it was a nut and bolt restoration, but its all original!

So, did Porsche actually build cars without a VIN in situations like this?
I can't help but think that they had to put some sort of numbers/ID on it.

Did they build any 914s in this same manner?

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carr914
post Jul 11 2017, 04:55 PM
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It's called "Body in White" and a 914 was in the catalog
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SirAndy
post Jul 11 2017, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 11 2017, 03:55 PM) *
It's called "Body in White" and a 914 was in the catalog

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
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Edward Blume
post Jul 11 2017, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 11 2017, 03:55 PM) *

It's called "Body in White" and a 914 was in the catalog

Maybe that's why I don't have a VIN... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
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Tom_T
post Jul 11 2017, 05:14 PM
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Steve,

Since a VIN is technically only a US-DOT requirement for street vehicles, it's possible that a non-street race car could have been produced without a VIN, but IIRC even Porsche's racing department had some sort of ID or Serial Nos. on their Factory Race Cars - even the 917s, 906s, 908s, etc.

I'd have your co-worker ask for more info & documentation on that car from the original buyer/family & seller if different. It should at least have a Chassis Number stamped on it somewhere, I would think.

This would also be a question for your co-worker to ask & verify on this particular car, with Porsche AG in Germany &/or PCNA in Atlanta, if they're really interested in buying this car.

Even if it checks out with them, I don't think that it can be registered for on street use now, without getting a VIN assigned to it - which Porsche would have to do AFAIK, but yet another thing to research with US-DOT & your co-worker's State DMV.

What TC is talking about "Body in White" is basically a replacement car body with no VIN on it yet, which could be used for a total rebuild/resto by Porsche &/or a state licensed shop - either of which under specific rules is allowed to assign the VIN from another car being repaired/rebuilt, & it may involve a "Rebuilt" title in the end.

At one point a few years back I was researching doing a body in white rebuild of my 73 914-2.0 if the cost of it was less that the total accident/rust repair on mine, but they don't have 914 body in white anymore - so that went out the window for me.

PS - Since it is possible to "create" a seemingly original car - & there have been a couple of examples around - I would say buyer beware & check everything out fully & get full documentations from the original owner (if possible) &/or from Porsche, before paying anything on it.

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74ravenna
post Jul 11 2017, 05:18 PM
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Thanks for the explanation Tom.

Never heard of "body in white".

Interesting.
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gcrotvik
post Jul 11 2017, 05:33 PM
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Porsche PET



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Tom_T
post Jul 11 2017, 06:02 PM
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QUOTE(gcrotvik @ Jul 11 2017, 04:33 PM) *

Porsche PET


Yes, I know Greg,

But back in 2011 when I checked with Hennesey Porsche in ATL & a couple of the SoCal dealerships, & there were none available anywhere - not even the 75> listed, & the last price that I saw was in the $8500+ range on the Hennesey price list, but none available.

The parts guy there checked in USA, Canada, Germany/Europe, & Japan & elsewhere worldwide too IIRC. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Many parts are listed online as available - & they'll even take your money/charge, hold it for awhile in their account, then tell you it's NLA & refund it! Not a good deal on a $9K+ charge incl. (tax & S&H)! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

My idea was to get the body-in-white & the panels & parts needed to add to it from mine &/or my parts 914 & misc. parts painted L80E & assembled & VIN reassigned by the body shop; then have the drivetrain/suspension/etc. installed & set-up/debugged/tweaked by my guy Hans (factory trained on 914s in `69 & expert P-Tech since then); & then I could do a side-by-side parts/interior/etc. swap into the fresh body & get it all just right & ready to go to DMV for new Reg. & then to show.

Oh well.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

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Tom
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gms
post Jul 11 2017, 06:44 PM
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I believe a “body in white” was just that, a body painted white. I don’t believe there was engine, transaxle, suspension or interior. This was a very popular way to make a 935 out of a 911. The serial numbers were like 000 00022 I believe this was the 22nd body from 1980.
I have heard of one such 914 body in white it replaced the rusted body of 914.043.0059
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Tom_T
post Jul 11 2017, 06:55 PM
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QUOTE(gms @ Jul 11 2017, 05:44 PM) *

I believe a “body in white” was just that, a body painted white. I don’t believe there was engine, transaxle, suspension or interior. This was a very popular way to make a 935 out of a 911. The serial numbers were like 000 00022 I believe this was the 22nd body from 1980.
I have heard of one such 914 body in white it replaced the rusted body of 914.043.0059


When was that -6 body-in-white done Glen? I'd bet at least 15-20 years ago.

IIRC the body-in-white was only the body shell, & also lacked doors, F&R deck & engine lids, & a bunch of other parts to make a complete 914 etc.

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rgalla9146
post Jul 11 2017, 07:20 PM
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Earlier than '68 with adjustable lower ball joints.
Also headlamps and parking lamps are '67 or earlier.
No body trim.
Looks like a factory roll bar and period Dunlops.
Parts sticker on front strut dust cover.
Evidence of undercoat ? sound deadening ?
What do the seats look look like ?
The engine ?
Co workers phone number ?
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yellow75
post Jul 12 2017, 08:17 AM
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that looks like a 911R. SUPER RARE..
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74ravenna
post Jul 12 2017, 04:33 PM
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QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Jul 11 2017, 09:20 PM) *

Earlier than '68 with adjustable lower ball joints.
Also headlamps and parking lamps are '67 or earlier.
No body trim.
Looks like a factory roll bar and period Dunlops.
Parts sticker on front strut dust cover.
Evidence of undercoat ? sound deadening ?
What do the seats look look like ?
The engine ?
Co workers phone number ?


Talked to my co-worker today. They offered to lower it so he could check it out, but he declined. Now he regrets that.
He's going to try and get more info on it.

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rgalla9146
post Jul 12 2017, 04:41 PM
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QUOTE(yellow75 @ Jul 12 2017, 10:17 AM) *

that looks like a 911R. SUPER RARE..


It's not an R
The twenty three Rs are all accounted for. By VIN nos.
I've owned five 911R wheels over the years.
Around 1978 I rode in a 911R as a passenger with Fred Apgar driving.
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ConeDodger
post Jul 12 2017, 04:45 PM
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If he really wants a VIN there's this guy in Atlanta... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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Edward Blume
post Jul 12 2017, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Jul 12 2017, 03:45 PM) *

If he really wants a VIN there's this guy in Atlanta... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Yeah, Rob "knows a guy..."
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porschetub
post Jul 12 2017, 11:38 PM
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Was going to start waxing on about an "R" but then pulled back,cause it didn't look right....say what u like a very clean car worth huge money besides,very third party info so far...?
What motor???
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ConeDodger
post Jul 12 2017, 11:39 PM
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QUOTE(Edward Blume @ Jul 13 2017, 02:14 AM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Jul 12 2017, 03:45 PM) *

If he really wants a VIN there's this guy in Atlanta... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Yeah, Rob "knows a guy..."


I've never met him. I had one conversation on the phone with him. He was a pompous prick. But if you're looking for a VIN I've heard he's your man. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) not that there's anything illegal about that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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flyer86d
post Jul 13 2017, 05:01 AM
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QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Jul 12 2017, 06:41 PM) *

QUOTE(yellow75 @ Jul 12 2017, 10:17 AM) *

that looks like a 911R. SUPER RARE..


It's not an R
The twenty three Rs are all accounted for. By VIN nos.
I've owned five 911R wheels over the years.
Around 1978 I rode in a 911R as a passenger with Fred Apgar driving.


I stopped at Fred Apgar's one Saturday in 1978 when that 911R was there. Fred pulled the engine for a rebuild and installed the 2.2S out of his own 914-6 as a loaner. That R engine sat in boxes for about 15 years under his workbench. Naturally it was full of the cool parts, Titanium rods, shim style rockers, 46 Weber etc. The owner finally put up the money for the rebuild and Fred got his 2.2S back.

I crawled all around that car that day taking in all of the details. I didn't get a ride though.

Charlie
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Darren C
post Jul 13 2017, 05:15 AM
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"Body in White" is a generic name used by ALL European car manufacturers given to a new bodyshell that has not been allocated an identity.
Colour has nothing to do with it.

The word "White" is used as in a "blank" sheet of paper

At Rolls-Royce our Bodies in white arrive in Grey primer.
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