Brakes, Brakes, Brakes, Experiences with 320i upgrade Options

[Eric_Shea]

Thanks Kevin,

I need to publicly add that Kevin is one rock'n dude as well. In the spirit of Herb I got a very nice care package in the mail from Kevin a couple weeks ago. I'm going to do a thread on it but man... way above an beyond the call.

This club rocks! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

(P.S. How's the young'n's guitar coming along?)

[crash914]

Kool....I was just going to ask if you received the pads....The Porterfields like a little heat. The other set is I think a street compound. You could try them and see if there is any difference.

I am blushing...thanks for all the (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wub.gif) .... I just got a thing for these old under loved cars...

Now what Ishould have done is take a camera to the track with me this weekend...there were about 7 or 8 914's there...

How did I do?? glad you asked.... I sucked... almost lost the car on the first corner...damn hard (5 or 6) year old race rubber, I would have done better on streets...

OH yea the brakes....they sucked....I can lock them up at will on the street, but they got hot on the track...320 fronts with hawk HP+ pads. Needs more pad...of course this is with my new motor..I was told that it would eat brakes now...it did...I went from 77 RWHP to somewhere over 140 RWHP and over 165 ft lbs of touque.....real different ride.

Any way, enjoy good brakes!!!

and if you still want 320 brakes, come get my car..it comes stock with 320i brakes!!

I got to unload the 320...good for parts....cheap!!

[roundboy914]

soooooooooo
i havea 914/2.1L 4, with stock rears, 320 fronts, t valve, 19 mm master, and pagid pads. At Road America this weekend, with two drives, 15 sessions, i used up the better part of a set of front pads, and the rears are still the same as they were nearly a year ago. The fronts get HOT, but the pedal stayed firm. We did bleed the brakes twice (the first time was because i had not done them since before the last track event last fall, the second was while we were rotating tires, and checking pads), and the car stopped well, with little or no brake fade, even in back to back sessions. Now, all that said, it *seems* to me that the pedal was firmer back with the stock system, especially after a fresh bleed. The stock system was good, and i think this new set up is better, but i'm not sure. There is less fade, and the car and driver have gotten faster so the brakes need to do more, but the brakes are still not awe inspiring - but my ride ain't no GT3 either.

[Eric_Shea]

Howard... sounds like your ready for some S/A-Calipers at least.

Roundboy, have you checked your rear venting clearance lately? Sounds like that might get the rears to at least show up for the game. I miss Chitown. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

[roundboy914]

I set them when i added the pads, do i need to re-set the clearance as they wear, or are they self adjusting.

Yeah, Chi-town rocks. Today is b-e-a-utiful, and the Sox won last night!

[Eric_Shea]

If you're racing etc... it's something I'd adjust before every race. Adjust with the handbrake cable off. .008

Try it and then do some autocrossing or find an empty parking lot this weekend and feel the rotor. See what you get. It makes a big difference in pedal travel. Too close and they can get too hot and lock on so be careful there.

Sox (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) never heard of them (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[crash914]

sox got beat by baltimore....

The only sox that count!!

[Eric_Shea]

I soooooooooooooooooo badly wanted to see that Sox/Cubs World Series. It would have done baseball a world of good. Both teams have the most insane fans in all of B-ball.

[grantsfo]

QUOTE (solex @ May 16 2005, 08:25 AM)

Cap'n I was using the phrase "lock up" to convey the fact that the brakes do not seem to stop the car in what I think is a reasonable distance. The fact is, these brakes do not seem any better then the drum units on my long departed beetles. Perhaps what I need to do is to drive another 914 and see if there is a difference. Anyone in Long Island want to lend a helping hand to determine if there is some were else I need to look (e.g. proportioning valve...) Thanks, Dan

You might have a differnt opinion after using brakes on my car with pretty much stock rotors and calipers. Stock brakes are awesome if you have everything setup and maintained properly. I'm convinced that pad choice, properly working calipers and regular bleeding of brake fluid will make a difference. And I use the term lock up to indicate that braking force of my stock brakes over powers the traction of the r compound tires I run if I stomp on the brakes. If I can do that I dont need any more braking power.

Now brake fade is something all together differnt that the 320i calipers will hurt rather than help from what I read. So I'm not sure why people go that route.

[CptTripps]

ok, so after reading this entire thread, I think the Metal-Master pads are the problem. 3 people here have them, and don't like them. I'm going to see if NAPA has a better pad. Hmmm...

[Eric_Shea]

I was going to direct you here. Glad you found it. NAPA? Try here. Try the Porterfield "Street" pads.

[CptTripps]

What about the Hawk HPS pads?

I'll get the others if that is what people are getting...just asking.

[Eric_Shea]

I don't have any experience with them. Maybe others can chime in. I've heard good things though.

[scotty914]

QUOTE (grantsfo @ May 31 2005, 11:15 AM)

Now brake fade is something all together differnt that the 320i calipers will hurt rather than help from what I read. So I'm not sure why people go that route.

bigger pads will never hurt, heavyer calibers will not hurt braking either

bigger pads create more fricton, but it will not increase the amount needed, so it will take less pressure to stop. it will take X amount of friction to stop a 914 from Z speed, bigger pads will not generate more heat overall because fricton makes heat and the amount of fricton is the same

now bigger calibers can soak up more heat because they weigh more but take longer to cool.

at worse the bmw are not an improvement but they can not be worse. but bigger pads are better

prove this to your self go to the lumber store, and put a peice of ply wood on edge and push it then lay it down and push it... same amount of weight same friction less pressure per square inch

[CptTripps]

Ordered the R4-S for the front and back...they'll be here in the AM. We'll see what happens!

[crash914]

damn...and I just gave away a set of r4-s's......oh well.....

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Jun 2 2005, 08:38 AM)

QUOTE (grantsfo @ May 31 2005, 11:15 AM) Now brake fade is something all together differnt that the 320i calipers will hurt rather than help from what I read.  So I'm not sure why people go that route. bigger pads will never hurt, heavyer calibers will not hurt braking either bigger pads create more fricton, but it will not increase the amount needed, so it will take less pressure to stop. it will take X amount of friction to stop a 914 from Z speed, bigger pads will not generate more heat overall because fricton makes heat and the amount of fricton is the same now bigger calibers can soak up more heat because they weigh more but take longer to cool. at worse the bmw are not an improvement but they can not be worse. but bigger pads are better prove this to your self go to the lumber store, and put a peice of ply wood on edge and push it then lay it down and push it... same amount of weight same friction less pressure per square inch

Sigh...

Looks like I need to write another blog article, on brakes. Gone over this ground before.

Some of your statements are incorrect, Scott. I'll write up an article...

Eric, the venting clearance is 0.004", not 0.008", ask the Cap'n. Haynes is wrong.

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jun 2 2005, 12:18 PM)

Sigh... Eric, the venting clearance is 0.004", not 0.008", ask the Cap'n.  Haynes is wrong.

no wonder why my rear brakes arent doing shit (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

QUOTE

Eric, the venting clearance is 0.004", not 0.008",

Correct. Because of the two well published numbers I tend to get it wrong often. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[solex]

The saga continues...

I reset the venting clearence to .004" which reduced the pedal travel.

I decided to go out for a long drive. It was very hot out probably 90 degrees on the Northern State, the brakes again better but not impressive. About 20 minutes into the drive on the Northern State in traffic (what else is new). I stepped on the brake pedal and it almost went to the floor but did not trigger the dash light. The pedal felt this way for a few minutes. I though perhaps the heat may have something to do with it so I pulled off and drove at a moderate speed and the pedal came back to it usual possition.

After getting home I noticed that the fluid resovior had overflowed through the cap.

Is this an indication of something wrong with the MC?

Thanks,
Dan