5-point belt without cage? Options

[mbseto]

So I'm not planning to race the car I'm working on, but was thinking about the seatbelts. Would it make any sense to put 5-pt belts in it to increase safety? Would it help to make up for lack of air bags? Does it even make sense without a roll cage?

[jd74914]

I don't have anything meaningful to add on the safety aspects, but if you're going to put a harness in, do yourself a favor buy a DOT one and only buy it from Schroth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[tygaboy]

I'm assuming you've thought about this same thing:

For me it was weighing safety and convenience. In the end, I'll have both:

I'm going to street drive with a 3 point retractables BUT, I'm having them made with snap hook connectors.
I'm also adding installation points for the harness set up.

Headed to the track? No problem! Snap, snap, click, click! All set.
"Re-streeting" is 4 clicks away!

[McMark]

Racecar safety is not the same as street car safety, IMHO.

Use three point belts.

[GeorgeRud]

Agreed!

[Dave_Darling]

Yup, what McMark said!

Try belting yourself in properly with five-point belts (that means TIGHT!) and then try looking back so you can back up. Not gonna happen. Turning the radio on or off? Only if you have a remote control for it. Unlocking or opening the passenger door? Nope. Passenger window? I hope you have electric windows. Change for a toll-booth?

All of those normal things you wind up doing while driving need a little bit of give, and properly fastened race belts have none. And if you're not wearing them correctly, they can be more dangerous than the three-point belts.

--DD

[mepstein]

I hate driving our customer cars with 5 point belts.

[914forme]

I plan on racing my car, and I have 3 points in for street, and a 6 point in for the track.

Used to run 5 points and things get old quick. At that point it was a race only car, that saw street duty to get to and from the event. I was to dumb to toss it up on a trailer and ride in comfort with A/C Heat, and well a radio.

Plenty of good 3 points, out there, IF you go 5 points go with Schoth DOT belts. BTW DOT approved belts I think are only made in a 4 point configuration or 3 point, which requires a normal car cabin to hook up.

You will also need upper mounts, and reinforcing plates, I did both front and back on my car. Under floor, and for the 6 point setup I am running 2 under the drivers seat. Also pay attention to where the harness mounts are place. Schrothh has a great writeup on this also.

You will also like to stick with 2" belts for the shoulders as 3" get a bit awkward, or a 3" / 2" Hybrid belt.

So after all of that, I think I would go with a 3 point with new webbing. Seat Belt Planet has some both early and later style that will work.

[914forme]

Oh and there are lots of belt manufactures out there, I only trust my life with Schroth belts. I can go with lots of others, and lots of big names. That being said, I am willing to pay a bit extra upfront to reduce the downside. Downside in the case could be death, or disability. Neither sound like a road I want to take because I saved a few $100 dollars.

Death is in all of our cards, so thats not a choice, but it is a choice if I buy an Ebay special and test it with a sudden unplanned deceleration maneuver and knock on death's door. I'll get there soon enough with out my CSOBitist causing me to be there before it was planned.

[falcor75]

A car without a roll cage can get unsafer from 4 or 5 point belts.

With the stock 3 point belt you can twist towards the middle of the car incase of a rollover that starts to compromise the cabin height. With a 5 point harness you are stuck upright and have no cage to help keep the cabin height intact.

[90quattrocoupe]

A car without a roll cage can get unsafer from 4 or 5 point belts.

With the stock 3 point belt you can twist towards the middle of the car incase of a rollover that starts to compromise the cabin height. With a 5 point harness you are stuck upright and have no cage to help keep the cabin height intact.

I am sorry, but in a rollover and centrifugal force working against you, I don't believe you could twist toward the center of the car. You might be able to do it rolling left, but definitely not right.

I have rolled 3 cars and was not able to do anything during the rollover, besides hanging onto the steering wheel.


Greg W/

[Elliot Cannon]

Inertia reel seat belts are krap! Some of the new ones will tighten up when one or more of the airbags is deployed which is a good thing. Older inertia reels will pay out a slight amount before they stop. Inertia reels were developed because people didn't like getting their clothes wrinkled. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) I don't like that much slack weather I'm rolling over or slamming into a power pole. (An experience I would rather avoid by the way). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Elliot Cannon]

A car without a roll cage can get unsafer from 4 or 5 point belts.

With the stock 3 point belt you can twist towards the middle of the car incase of a rollover that starts to compromise the cabin height. With a 5 point harness you are stuck upright and have no cage to help keep the cabin height intact.

You're going to lean toward the middle of the car during a rollover?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Racer]

I would consider Shroth 4-pts. Other than that, inertia reels.

I have a '70 with OEM belts. Ugh. Like and hate em at the same time. My '76 had inertia reels for street and 5pts for the track. That was much better. As metnioned, looking back to back up, or reach across and open the passenger door or window etc is a pita with tightly worn fixed belts.

[falcor75]

A car without a roll cage can get unsafer from 4 or 5 point belts.

With the stock 3 point belt you can twist towards the middle of the car incase of a rollover that starts to compromise the cabin height. With a 5 point harness you are stuck upright and have no cage to help keep the cabin height intact.

You're going to lean toward the middle of the car during a rollover?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

I wasnt talking about during the actual rollover, I meant afterwards if the passenger compartment is compromised. If you are stuck upright with a 4 point harness and the b-billars give in, the next thing to keep the roof up is your spine. The info is from a racer in Sweden who happens to work for Volvo evaluting crash performance so I think I'll trust his opinion over anyone else on this board unless their have a similar profession.

But then again, its your life and your choice, I was just trying to help.

[mbseto]

OK, looks like 3-pt inertial belts it is. Thanks for all the information!

[eeyore]

I wasnt talking about during the actual rollover, I meant afterwards if the passenger compartment is compromised. If you are stuck upright with a 4 point harness and the b-billars give in, the next thing to keep the roof up is your spine. The info is from a racer in Sweden who happens to work for Volvo evaluting crash performance so I think I'll trust his opinion over anyone else on this board unless their have a similar profession.

But then again, its your life and your choice, I was just trying to help.

An off-roading fellow had this experience first hand. He rolled his pickup truck out in the desert, and he and his buddy were squished onto/into each other in the middle of the cab. He realized if he had 5 point harnesses, it would have been much worse.

[Elliot Cannon]

This argument come up once every few years. I guess we're good for a few more years. I'm always happy to participate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[Justinp71]

Have you guys noticed that the 914 inertia belts only work when you get on the brakes hard? But in a modern car they also work by pulling them very fast? Or do my 914 inertia belts need a rebuild?

[SirAndy]

Have you guys noticed that the 914 inertia belts only work when you get on the brakes hard? But in a modern car they also work by pulling them very fast? Or do my 914 inertia belts need a rebuild?

Do you have the chrome bracket that redirects the belt so it still goes straight down from the reel?
If not, your belts will never work correctly.


Which is another reason why i prefer the non-retractable early style belts ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)