Original Cars:How many are still out there?, Where do you see the market in the future? Options

[914_7T3]

Didn't want to Hijack bbrocks thread on how certain mods may affect resale value, but it really got me thinking about future values on these cars and where the market may be heading.

http://914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=314860

I love that everyone has a different vision for their car and can go their own way. Some members such as Arne & myself are currently working on driver restos and others such as Larmo among others are deep into some serious 6 builds.

After having been to about a 1/2 dozen events, there is definitely serious interest in the 914 and this will bring prices up for good clean original cars. Not sure when or to what degree, but I have spoken with several PCar Collectors, expressing interest in "seriously getting one, but they're hard to find"

Good clean cars and NOS parts will become scarce and drive prices up.

What are your thoughts on values possibly starting to trend similar to the beginning of the run up on 356s and 911s?

I would also like to hear about how many of you have Concours quality 914s as I have not heard much about those cars in the forums.

[bbrock]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Peashooter]

I don't see the 914's ever approaching the 911 or 356 territory. A real nice original 914-6 is starting to get semi-serious money thrown at it, but that has tapered off from what I see. The best bet in Porsche world will always be a nice original, numbers matching car. History has shown that over and over. The hot rods and conversions are fun cars when built correctly but will never ace an original car. The 914 four cylinder cars are starting to come into their own at last, helped along by the stratospheric prices of the fore mentioned cars and the fact that the new cars are so stupidly complex the owners can only play with them to a small degree by themselves and the costs are high.

[mepstein]

Unlike 911's and 356, there are still a ton of low priced 914's out there. They might need a lot of work but untill the supply of cheap cars dries up, the average 914 won't hit big numbers like the average 911 or 356.

[Tom_T]

The early 911 values' push effect has been going on since 2000 & even back into the late `90's to some extent, with the expected pauses or flattening at recession times. When the early SWB & LWB 911s pushed into 6-figures & some into mid-6's - then the 914-6s first, & 73-74 2.0s, 74 LEs etc. next began to rise.

So not only are 911s taildragers, but are also "the tail wagging the dog" when it comes to 914 values.

Similarly, with the 4-cylinder 356s reaching even higher heights than early 911s, that drove prices for both 4 & 6 flavors of 914s as more accessible early air-cooled collectable Porsches. Remember that you could get a Speedster, Coupe or Cab #1 cars which now sell in restored & even restoration-resurrections for 2-300KS - which in the 1960s-70s for a couple of thousand dollars!

So never say never, about if 914/4s would ever pass $100K at some point - as we're 1/3 of the way there now!

Also lately with the early 911 prices plateauing, the 914 values seem to follow suit & have flattened out their rise from the mid to high $20Ks for a Concours level 73 914-2.0 in 2009-10, up to the early to mid $30Ks & relatively flat since 2015.

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools...Porsche-914-2.0
^ see the chart at the bottom, & revise the search for any other MY & engine/sub-model you like.

Similarly, the factory 914-6's went from the $50-70Ks to $90-100K+'s in the same period, & have been flat lately.

Part of this is the fickle nature of what the big collectors think is hot - or will be - & what they pine for, as well as the economics of the purchase/value relative to other options. So later 70's 911s are feeling the same value push & interest lately.

Also - while the top end #1 cars rise or pause, so do the #2-4 cars, as well as resto-mods, conversions, etc. - just at a lower level than are the "hen's teeth'" #1 all original numbers matching cars - with an unmolested, low mile, all original & never restored #1 exceeding their value curve by quite a bit.

.... & I do mean "ALL original" - not the ubiquitous "all original, except..." cars too often advertised at top prices. If well done they may have a good value, but not the top dawg all original values.

Probably at this point while some "virgin all originals" are available, as well as undamaged & minimally rusted/repaired & accident free "all originals" with restos requiring minimal body work, both commanding top values - those "originals/numbers matching examples with more rustoration &/or accident repairs in the resto will lag a bit below those. However, in the future as supply of good #1 cars dwindle & if demand for them keeps up or grows even more, then even those will close the gap on the all originals over time.

Similarly, the resto-mods, 6-conversions, Subi-conversions & V8-beasts, etc. will command good values relative to the quality level of their work done - but at a level below the originals at any of the #1-4 quality levels.

So at some future date TBD, the 914s - both 6 & 4 - may reach the recent highs of the early SWB & LWB 911s - but by then they too will have escalated in all probability.

However, the early SWB & LWB 912s & 76 912Es will probably stay within close value with the more desirable 914/4s (74 LEs, 73-74 2.0s, 75-76 2.0s, 72 914/4 1.7s, & very early production date/number 70 MY 1.7s) - as they are today.

The 914-6s are & will remain above those 914/4s & 912s/912Es & closer to the early SWB & LWB 911s, & maybe even stay comparable to the lower end 911Ts & 911Ls of that era - or perhaps even more than them, if more collector folks finally figure out that the 914-6 is both more rare by numbers produced & handles so much better than those base level taildraggers!

That's my opinion of the forecast anyway, & that of many other collectors, insurers, etc.

So my word of caution is - whatever model/engine 914 & condition level #1-4 that you have - make sure to recheck the current values & adjust your insurance coverage accordingly ever year or two - so that you're not cut short in case something happens to your baby!

PS - FYI - my 914 is an early 73 2.0 with the Appearance & Performance Groups of options included in the base price & marketed in late 72 & early 73 as a "914S" "Trim Package"* (similar to but not with the +/-1000 limited numbers of the 74 914-2.0 LE Trim Package*), & it's a matching numbers car, but it has accident & rust damage which needs to be repaired in my resto. So even though I plan to keep it all original, taking it back to the OE Light Ivory L80E paint, with a few of the optional dealer accessories sold back in the day (e.g.: the AMCO Porsche+Audi approved Porsche Crest shift knob, which has been on it since I got it as 2nd owner in 12/75), as well as returning it to the factory supplied center console, fog lights & Fuchs 2L alloys which were removed by the selling dealer before the OO bought it new - it won't rank in the top class of very low mile all original, lightly restored or fully restored 914s with less rust/panel damage to repair.

For those wondering about my 911S & LE comparison as a "Trim Package" - here is a Wike definition for it below, & there are other definitions out there too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_package

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[BK911]

Well said Bill.
+1.

[bbrock]

Also lately with the early 911 prices plateauing, the 914 values seem to follow suit & have flattened out their rise from the mid to high $20Ks for a Concours level 73 914-2.0 in 2009-10, up to the early to mid $30Ks & relatively flat since 2015.

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools...Porsche-914-2.0
^ see the chart at the bottom, & revise the search for any other MY & engine/sub-model you like.

Interesting, Hagerty has the '76 2.0L valued ~ $500-$600 higher than earlier cars and 73/74 2.0s valued the same as '75. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[wes]

Also lately with the early 911 prices plateauing, the 914 values seem to follow suit & have flattened out their rise from the mid to high $20Ks for a Concours level 73 914-2.0 in 2009-10, up to the early to mid $30Ks & relatively flat since 2015.

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools...Porsche-914-2.0
^ see the chart at the bottom, & revise the search for any other MY & engine/sub-model you like.

Interesting, Hagerty has the '76 2.0L valued ~ $500-$600 higher than earlier cars and 73/74 2.0s valued the same as '75. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I believe collectors driving those $$ over people that love to drive a nimble light weight early car!

[burton73]

Also lately with the early 911 prices plateauing, the 914 values seem to follow suit & have flattened out their rise from the mid to high $20Ks for a Concours level 73 914-2.0 in 2009-10, up to the early to mid $30Ks & relatively flat since 2015.

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools...Porsche-914-2.0
^ see the chart at the bottom, & revise the search for any other MY & engine/sub-model you like.

Interesting, Hagerty has the '76 2.0L valued ~ $500-$600 higher than earlier cars and 73/74 2.0s valued the same as '75. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I believe collectors driving those $$ over people that love to drive a nimble light weight early car!

76 is the short run 914-4 beside the LEs it is I believe the shortest amount of cars being only made in 1975 and all of them 2.0 From a collector standpoint it should be high but it has its smog issues. They are not dogs. My 76 is a runner, handles great. I bought it just for investment in 2008

Bob B

[914Next]

914 7T3 I think you're going to get the full range of responses here. Of course none of us know what will happen to values but we all have an opinion. I personally agree with others who indicate that the all-original and top survivor cars, whether 6's or 4's will lead the 914 market. Concours restored will be right there with them or slightly behind. Lets face it, the market in all collector categories right now favors originality....which was not the case 15 years ago.

I do think 914's will continue to increase in value and that prices today are not generally over-inflated.

I too wonder how many excellent all-original examples there are out there. I have one that I think likely deserves to be in that category but I too would love to know of others. Agree with you that there is not much talk about originality on this forum. Thats ok with me....I still learn a lot but I'd love to hear of and discuss other's original cars now and then too. Maybe a Survivor registry for those looking to promote originality. Could see a couple levels based on percent originality. Just a thought. Likely will go nowhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tom_T]

Also lately with the early 911 prices plateauing, the 914 values seem to follow suit & have flattened out their rise from the mid to high $20Ks for a Concours level 73 914-2.0 in 2009-10, up to the early to mid $30Ks & relatively flat since 2015.

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools...Porsche-914-2.0
^ see the chart at the bottom, & revise the search for any other MY & engine/sub-model you like.

Interesting, Hagerty has the '76 2.0L valued ~ $500-$600 higher than earlier cars and 73/74 2.0s valued the same as '75. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Brent,

I'm not sure, but I think that may be driven by a few recent sales of a few very low mile & pristine 76 2Ls, & IIRC one yellow one has re-traded several times over the past 5-6 years for an increase.

Here in CA the 76 & on smog compliance requirements will continue to hold them back for anything but a never driven Queen, until & unless the legislature here moves the goal post for smog exempt further past the 76 MY cars.

IMHO we'll continue to see the GA & GC versions of the 2L close to each other, perhaps with the 76 edging out on the collector preference due to the lower numbers, as with the 74 2.0 LE.

The early 73 MY 2.0s with the "fully loaded" "914S" trim package will be somewhere lagging those a tad, but more popular since they all included the preferred chrome bumpers with foglights, loop carpet with console & other desired options. Unfortunately, PCNA doesn't list them as "included options" on their COAs (nor do they for 911R, 911RS & other special packages), although they do list the combo paint number in color for the 74 LEs.

.

Bill,

The non-CA 75-76 GC 2.0s were pretty choked down as stock from the factory - while the 49 state version was a bit better on power. If yours has bypassed all that gear &/or been tweaked for your driving pleasure, then it will perform pretty much as a 73-74 GA 2L. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Back in 75 when I was looking for my 914, I also test drove a few new 75 & 76 GC 2Ls as possible new car purchase - since new was an option for me then on a limited monthly budget a year out of college, what with the bank offering 100% financing, 5 year term & lower interest rate - so my monthly payments would've been close to the max 80% financed 3 year term & higher rate, within maybe $10/mo of each other.

But I could tell a significant power difference between the 75-76 GC 2L in Calif smog fitment, & the 73-74 GA 2Ls - which were a good 20% more HP/TQ - since the CA GC 2L had about as much power as a 70-72 1.7L - at 86 vs 80 HP respectively IIRC. So I & most others I knew could tell the difference easily, but in all cases we're talking less than 100 HP, so not the 300-600+ HP bench racing debates of today - which monster power you can't really use in the real world, even with all the intervening electronic nannies.

The fun then & now of our 914s, is being able to drive them at 80-100% on public roads & enjoying their handling! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

Back then the 73-74 was definitely preferred by most folks, unless they wanted a new car only. My Dad was always banging-on about letting someone else take the 20-25% loss of value when driving your brand spanking new car off the lot, so I leaned in that direction, as well as to cut off payments sooner with a shorter 3 yr. loan.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Here's a 75 1.8 with 3K miles at Russo & Steele Auction in Monterey to watch for some price envelope punching, with an estimate at $50-60K! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

https://www.pca.org/news/2017-08-15/pickled...es-pebble-beach



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Jamie]

914 7T3 I think you're going to get the full range of responses here. Of course none of us know what will happen to values but we all have an opinion. I personally agree with others who indicate that the all-original and top survivor cars, whether 6's or 4's will lead the 914 market. Concours restored will be right there with them or slightly behind. Lets face it, the market in all collector categories right now favors originality....which was not the case 15 years ago.

I do think 914's will continue to increase in value and that prices today are not generally over-inflated.

I too wonder how many excellent all-original examples there are out there. I have one that I think likely deserves to be in that category but I too would love to know of others. Agree with you that there is not much talk about originality on this forum. Thats ok with me....I still learn a lot but I'd love to hear of and discuss other's original cars now and then too. Maybe a Survivor registry for those looking to promote originality. Could see a couple levels based on percent originality. Just a thought. Likely will go nowhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I wonder how some of the minor changes I'm making to my "mostly original" 73 1.7L Dad's Mistress affect the value, but the true value to me is driving Dad's old car. She is truly rust free in all body parts, still has original factory paint on the battery tray! I have had the outer body painted in the original beautiful Delphi Green, moved the fuel pump to the front, mostly drivability changes that enhance the value to me as a driver. I couldn't care less what these minor changes do to potential resale value because the car will not be for sale in my remaining lifetime! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Larmo63]

In the future, with the advent of self driving cars, our cars ( or anything fun) will be legislated out of legal use. I doubt if many 914s will even be on the road.

The good ones will be in museums and most of the leftovers will be crushed to make renewable housing for homeless people.

[914Next]

Here's a 75 1.8 with 3K miles at Russo & Steele Auction in Monterey to watch for some price envelope punching, with an estimate at $50-60K! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

https://www.pca.org/news/2017-08-15/pickled...es-pebble-beach



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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I believe the estimate is at $40-$50k Tom and I'll go on the record with a prediction of a $41,500 top bid. Agree with the comment that the removed A/C will pull it down. Also, while some may not, I'm dinging it for the fact that it is a '76. But I sure hope I'm low.

[Dave_Darling]

Interesting, Hagerty has the '76 2.0L valued ~ $500-$600 higher than earlier cars and 73/74 2.0s valued the same as '75. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Remember that there were only ~4100 made for the 1976 model year. Plus it is the end of the run, and that seems to carry some cachet as well.

--DD

[Tom_T]

I wonder how some of the minor changes I'm making to my "mostly original" 73 1.7L Dad's Mistress affect the value, but the true value to me is driving Dad's old car. She is truly rust free in all body parts, still has original factory paint on the battery tray! I have had the outer body painted in the original beautiful Delphi Green, moved the fuel pump to the front, mostly drivability changes that enhance the value to me as a driver. I couldn't care less what these minor changes do to potential resale value because the car will not be for sale in my remaining lifetime! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

The fuel pump move to the front up behind the steering rack cover was a factory Service Bulletin item, with a factory supplied kit, so that shouldn't hurt any 70-74 which has it moved to resolve the vapor lock problem in the heat. Not sure what your other items are, but if they stick with period correct &/or easy to revert back to stock, then it's usually not a problem.

That yellow 1.8 with +/- 3K is a time capsule & probably won't be driven much at all.

While I'm not as pessimistic as Lawrence about all cars being outlawed, I think that they will become more rare as time goes on, but then I'll be dead & gone before they're completely outlawed - if that is even legally possible & feasible in the future.

Steve is correct on that 75 1.8 - it's a $40-50K estimate - I hit the wrong key with my flyin' fingers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .... but that would a big increase for a 1.8 value, if it even reaches $40K!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Chris914n6]

I attribute the rise in value of original cars to the simple fact that the 914 was so lacking and cheap for 3 decades that finding an unmolested example is near impossible.
There is the same issue with the early 90s Nissan 240sx (s13). It was/is the chassis of preference for entry level drifting. Bolt in the JDM 2.0T for a couple grand and off you go. Rare is an unmolested unwrecked 240sx without the poser welded diff. Price and popularity is starting to fade thanks to the Toybaru twins and the same money buys a nice 350z or Mustang.

Side note: I'd pay more for JRust's Suby than a restored LE just for the fact that it's more fun to drive and doesn't sound like a beetle.

[thelogo]

In the future, with self driving cars and our cars being legislated out of legal use, I doubt if many 914s will even be on the road.

The good ones will be in museums and most will be crushed to make renewable housing for homeless people.

At least this put into perspective my theory
That you should drive it like you stole it and not give a fucc about
How long its gonna be till you get your value or money out of it





Just remember chaps
No matter what the cars worth
You cannot buy the memories , and a 914 seems to always

Give me more fun and at the same time almost race car
Like perfomance.


Its like putting a price on my old jim rice baseball glove

Cant do it







I have a stock 1.7 73 , with a big for motor

But the second you start thinking something is worth more then
You paid for or are " in the car for "

You better think twice , unless its a tucker or something

[Steve]

I think there is more people out there like myself that looked for a good condition car to convert to a six or put a subi or some other higher hp motor in. That being the case there will be fewer and fewer stock 914's left in the world, which should raise there value even more. So far I am only seeing the converted cars go for the cost of the parts. Really nice cars like Paul's Excellence magazine car and Joe O'brians car sold for less than what they had in it.