Original Cars:How many are still out there?, Where do you see the market in the future? |
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Original Cars:How many are still out there?, Where do you see the market in the future? |
914_7T3 |
Aug 14 2017, 11:06 PM
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#1
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Please forgive me, I'm new to all of this! Group: Members Posts: 1,853 Joined: 3-April 17 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 20,991 Region Association: Southern California |
Didn't want to Hijack bbrocks thread on how certain mods may affect resale value, but it really got me thinking about future values on these cars and where the market may be heading.
http://914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=314860 I love that everyone has a different vision for their car and can go their own way. Some members such as Arne & myself are currently working on driver restos and others such as Larmo among others are deep into some serious 6 builds. After having been to about a 1/2 dozen events, there is definitely serious interest in the 914 and this will bring prices up for good clean original cars. Not sure when or to what degree, but I have spoken with several PCar Collectors, expressing interest in "seriously getting one, but they're hard to find" Good clean cars and NOS parts will become scarce and drive prices up. What are your thoughts on values possibly starting to trend similar to the beginning of the run up on 356s and 911s? I would also like to hear about how many of you have Concours quality 914s as I have not heard much about those cars in the forums. |
Tom_T |
Aug 16 2017, 11:12 AM
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#2
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,318 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
The OP was asking about how many original 914s are out there:
"Original Cars:How many are still out there?" So IMHO, preaching the virtues of a conversion, &/or how everyone else who has an original or is restoring one to it are just being stupid is OT in the former case, & just plain rude &inconsiderate in the latter case. Yes, there is a place for conversions, resto-mods, etc. in the 914 community - & I've tried to encourage you folks with them in SoCal to show them off at our PCA Zone 8 Concours in either Display or Judged - & guess what - one actually won class at our OC Concours in June! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif) However, it's gotten very tiring for the folks with the swollen gonads to always chime in that we originality fans are stupid .... that includes you Mark! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Fro me - my goal has always been to put my 73 2L back into the condition it was when new - before all the repaints (2 by OO &/or dealer, 2 by me); before theft of the Fuchs 2L alloys, fog lights/grills/switch & center console by the dealer; & to have it accurately represent both a period in automotive history, & in my personal history. I worked hard & ate lots of PBJ & Mac-n-Cheese to pay for it in 75-79, I had many road going mempories in it, & courted my wife in it - so I have a personal connection to it. It may start out after resto as a garage queen, but then I will enjoy driving it! So I really don't give a Flying F**k if somebody else on here thinks that I should drop a Subie, -6, V8, big-4, or whatever else that they want in theirs - into mine! I enjoyed driving my 914 for 172K miles & a decade pretty much as original - with the addition of Koni shocks/inserts & a few other period tweaks, & had restored/refurbed it TWICE in that time, & only stopped cuz some ditz ran into it in a parking structure in 1985, & I've hung onto it since then with the intent to & collection of parts for & my work on it for a restoration. THAT is my right! PERIOD! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) You folks really need to get over yourselves, & allow room for & respect the original 914 lovers, just as we do with you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Tom /////// |
bbrock |
Aug 16 2017, 12:35 PM
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#3
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
The OP was asking about how many original 914s are out there: "Original Cars:How many are still out there?" I just posted on the other thread that after owning 3 of these cars with tired suspensions and rusty shells, I just want the experience of driving the car as it was when it left the dealer. So count me as an originality guy and I think I made a mistake by tying my question on the other thread to resale value. For me, I think Porsche designed a damn fine car here that has been way under-appreciated and I like the car for its strengths AND weaknesses. I think it's kind of funny that my Honda CRV could probably beat my Porsche in a straight sprint. The Honda can go just as fast too. But you know, I've driven 115 mph in both cars and one is "meh" and the other is "Whee!" I even like the windshield washer powered by the spare tire. It is just another of the many interesting quirks of the car. That doesn't mean I don't salivate over those wide body, muscular sixes? I do! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) So I'm hoping when I'm done with my resto, I can be counted as having an original. But my struggle on the other thread that sort of started this brew ha ha is more about defining/interpreting originality. To me, the perfect 914 is an original '73-'74 2.0L sold on the European market - higher compression, euro signals and no warts. But if I convert a US car to those specs, it's not original. If I buy a car in the US, ship it to Hamburg, and then convert to euro to meet local requirements, is it still not original? It's a philosophical question. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
Tom_T |
Aug 16 2017, 01:01 PM
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#4
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,318 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California |
The OP was asking about how many original 914s are out there: "Original Cars:How many are still out there?" I just posted on the other thread that after owning 3 of these cars with tired suspensions and rusty shells, I just want the experience of driving the car as it was when it left the dealer. So count me as an originality guy and I think I made a mistake by tying my question on the other thread to resale value. For me, I think Porsche designed a damn fine care here that has been way under-appreciated and I like the car for its strengths AND weaknesses. I think it's kind of funny that my Honda CRV could probably beat my Porsche in a straight sprint. The Honda can go just as fast too. But you know, I've driven 115 mph in both cars and one is "meh" and the other is "Whee!" I even like the windshield washer powered by the spare tire. It is just another of the many interesting quirks of the car. That doesn't mean I don't salivate over those wide body, muscular sixes? I do! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) So I'm hoping when I'm done with my resto, I can be counted as having an original. But my struggle on the other thread that sort of started this brew ha ha is more about defining/interpreting originality. To me, the perfect 914 is an original '73-'74 2.0L sold on the European market - higher compression, euro signals and no warts. But if I convert a US car to those specs, it's not original. If I buy a car in the US, ship it to Hamburg, and then convert to euro to meet local requirements, is it still not original? It's a philosophical question. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Brent, Like putting in Konis or Bilsteins over the base stock Boge shocks/strut inserts, or using a SSI heat exchanger when originals are long NLA (they can always be painted as OE) - if you put on the 8.0 Euro P&C's from Meyhle or another OEM, then you will not be downgraded on originality IMHO. The cars have to be kept running, operable, rust & dents repaired etc. - so using the appropriate & period correct Euro P&Cs to tweak a few more HP was & is a common upgrade for restored & maintained 914s. Neither your nor my 914 will ever be the envelope pushing ultra-low-mile example like that yellow 75 1.8 which has a bit over 3K miles. Those are very few & far between, but well preserved (original with more than 20-100+K miles) & appropriately restored to original cars will fit into the #1-2 values. The true hard core originality collectors will always go for the unmolested original low mile examples, & fall over each other to bid them up. The next tier collector is looking for nicely maintained as original or restored to original example which they can drive & use a bit, show it, whatever. Those are maybe 20-30% of all 914s out there between preserved (less) & restored. They're 2 different levels of collector car - with the ultra-low mile originals being maybe a "#0 - Ultra-Concours Museum Quality" level beyond #1. They are never rusted & never repaired, & they're probably less than 1% of all 914s. So you doing a Euro P&C rebuild with the OE EFI with SSI HEs, using Koni or Bilstein shock/inserts, swapping out Euro TS lens/buckets or just the lenses (maintaining the originals to swap back), or using a cover at the F-sidemarker holes (maintaining the original Warts in storage to swap back) won't hurt your finished nor probably future value. There are plenty of 356s & 911s/912s out there with numbers matching engines which have been tweaked a bit for more HP & TQ, which don't suffer less value, since they're still restored to originality & period correct. Not every resto has to be 100% every part as original from the factory, since many of the parts are plain unavailable now. So feel free to do those options within the envelope of originality, period correct, & within your budget of course. BTW - There are some polished or painted body color covers for the wart holes which are advertised on evil-bay regularly. They mount over the holes & usually are seen with 914 on them. There may be someone on here who knows about them, or perhaps sells them. Those won't force you to weld in the holes to remove the warts, & be able to revert to original if desired at any future point. PS - now if you were to do a bigger engine build 2056 - 2.& +/- like a FAT Performance, Raby, etc. - then I'd say to pull the numbers matching motor & EFI & hermetically seal & store it, then get another core 2.0 with which to build the hot motor. Again, an easy-ish step to swap back in the original engine if desired in the future. PSS - I think that my son's 88 Civic Hatchback DX with the base 1.5L & 5-speed that we refurbed/resto'd together will probably out perform my 73 2L 914 on the straightaway too - probably not on the curves, & definitely not as much fun - but it is surprisingly fun & tossable to drive! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Tom /////// |
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