Original Cars:How many are still out there?, Where do you see the market in the future? Options

[Mark Henry]

I understand the originality bit, but it's not for me.
I never plan to sell my car so I absolutely don't care what its resale value is.
I have no use for a garage queens.

My '67 bug has 180hp, 1700lbs, 5-speed 911 trans, lowered etc. it goes from 0 to 100 probably under 5 seconds. I have a shit eating grin every time I drive it.
I want the same deal with my now 3.0 six conversion that should be close to 250HP.
I plan to drive the living shit out my car and quite honestly if I had to live with the stock 1.8 HP I'd buy a Corvette.

Not driving, modifying or worrying about resale value your 914 is like not having sex with your smokin hot girlfriend, just so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend.

YMMV (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[VaccaRabite]

I understand the originality bit, but it's not for me.
I never plan to sell my car so I absolutely don't care what its resale value is.
I have no use for a garage queens.

My '67 bug has 180hp, 1700lbs, 5-speed 911 trans, lowered etc. it goes from 0 to 100 probably under 5 seconds. I have a shit eating grin every time I drive it.
I want the same deal with my now 3.0 six conversion that should be close to 250HP.
I plan to drive the living shit out my car and quite honestly if I had to live with the stock 1.8 HP I'd buy a Corvette.

Not driving, modifying or worrying about resale value your 914 is like not having sex with your smokin hot girlfriend, just so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend.

YMMV (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Preach it Mark! Preach!

Zach

[Steve]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Living in so cal where 914's are more plentiful, I see mainly conversions and few original cars. Like Mark most of us conversion guys don't care about resale value or originality. We make our cars what we want them to be and plan on keeping them forever.

[Tom_T]

The OP was asking about how many original 914s are out there:
"Original Cars:How many are still out there?"

So IMHO, preaching the virtues of a conversion, &/or how everyone else who has an original or is restoring one to it are just being stupid is OT in the former case, & just plain rude &inconsiderate in the latter case.

Yes, there is a place for conversions, resto-mods, etc. in the 914 community - & I've tried to encourage you folks with them in SoCal to show them off at our PCA Zone 8 Concours in either Display or Judged - & guess what - one actually won class at our OC Concours in June! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

However, it's gotten very tiring for the folks with the swollen gonads to always chime in that we originality fans are stupid .... that includes you Mark! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Fro me - my goal has always been to put my 73 2L back into the condition it was when new - before all the repaints (2 by OO &/or dealer, 2 by me); before theft of the Fuchs 2L alloys, fog lights/grills/switch & center console by the dealer; & to have it accurately represent both a period in automotive history, & in my personal history.

I worked hard & ate lots of PBJ & Mac-n-Cheese to pay for it in 75-79, I had many road going mempories in it, & courted my wife in it - so I have a personal connection to it. It may start out after resto as a garage queen, but then I will enjoy driving it!

So I really don't give a Flying F**k if somebody else on here thinks that I should drop a Subie, -6, V8, big-4, or whatever else that they want in theirs - into mine!

I enjoyed driving my 914 for 172K miles & a decade pretty much as original - with the addition of Koni shocks/inserts & a few other period tweaks, & had restored/refurbed it TWICE in that time, & only stopped cuz some ditz ran into it in a parking structure in 1985, & I've hung onto it since then with the intent to & collection of parts for & my work on it for a restoration.

THAT is my right! PERIOD! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

You folks really need to get over yourselves, & allow room for & respect the original 914 lovers, just as we do with you!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Mark Henry]

I see you're off your meds again Tom (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[mepstein]

I just saw this one today. 1970. Original owner from new. Made some bolt on changes; steering wheel, front spoiler, wheels, exhaust, etc. but had all the original parts carefully saved on a shelf. Wants $2,500. Problem is it's VERY rusty. He has new, uninstalled floor pans but it needs longs, hell hole, suspension console, rear trunk and even area under the cowl (damp mice nest rotted it out). I'll check back later in the year to see if we can work a deal.

[Tom_T]

I see you're off your meds again Tom (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

No, just fed up with you Mark!

Go pound sand! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[bbrock]

The OP was asking about how many original 914s are out there:
"Original Cars:How many are still out there?"

I just posted on the other thread that after owning 3 of these cars with tired suspensions and rusty shells, I just want the experience of driving the car as it was when it left the dealer. So count me as an originality guy and I think I made a mistake by tying my question on the other thread to resale value.

For me, I think Porsche designed a damn fine car here that has been way under-appreciated and I like the car for its strengths AND weaknesses. I think it's kind of funny that my Honda CRV could probably beat my Porsche in a straight sprint. The Honda can go just as fast too. But you know, I've driven 115 mph in both cars and one is "meh" and the other is "Whee!" I even like the windshield washer powered by the spare tire. It is just another of the many interesting quirks of the car. That doesn't mean I don't salivate over those wide body, muscular sixes? I do! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

So I'm hoping when I'm done with my resto, I can be counted as having an original. But my struggle on the other thread that sort of started this brew ha ha is more about defining/interpreting originality. To me, the perfect 914 is an original '73-'74 2.0L sold on the European market - higher compression, euro signals and no warts. But if I convert a US car to those specs, it's not original. If I buy a car in the US, ship it to Hamburg, and then convert to euro to meet local requirements, is it still not original? It's a philosophical question. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Tom_T]

The OP was asking about how many original 914s are out there:
"Original Cars:How many are still out there?"

I just posted on the other thread that after owning 3 of these cars with tired suspensions and rusty shells, I just want the experience of driving the car as it was when it left the dealer. So count me as an originality guy and I think I made a mistake by tying my question on the other thread to resale value.

For me, I think Porsche designed a damn fine care here that has been way under-appreciated and I like the car for its strengths AND weaknesses. I think it's kind of funny that my Honda CRV could probably beat my Porsche in a straight sprint. The Honda can go just as fast too. But you know, I've driven 115 mph in both cars and one is "meh" and the other is "Whee!" I even like the windshield washer powered by the spare tire. It is just another of the many interesting quirks of the car. That doesn't mean I don't salivate over those wide body, muscular sixes? I do! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

So I'm hoping when I'm done with my resto, I can be counted as having an original. But my struggle on the other thread that sort of started this brew ha ha is more about defining/interpreting originality. To me, the perfect 914 is an original '73-'74 2.0L sold on the European market - higher compression, euro signals and no warts. But if I convert a US car to those specs, it's not original. If I buy a car in the US, ship it to Hamburg, and then convert to euro to meet local requirements, is it still not original? It's a philosophical question. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Brent,

Like putting in Konis or Bilsteins over the base stock Boge shocks/strut inserts, or using a SSI heat exchanger when originals are long NLA (they can always be painted as OE) - if you put on the 8.0 Euro P&C's from Meyhle or another OEM, then you will not be downgraded on originality IMHO.

The cars have to be kept running, operable, rust & dents repaired etc. - so using the appropriate & period correct Euro P&Cs to tweak a few more HP was & is a common upgrade for restored & maintained 914s.

Neither your nor my 914 will ever be the envelope pushing ultra-low-mile example like that yellow 75 1.8 which has a bit over 3K miles. Those are very few & far between, but well preserved (original with more than 20-100+K miles) & appropriately restored to original cars will fit into the #1-2 values.

The true hard core originality collectors will always go for the unmolested original low mile examples, & fall over each other to bid them up.

The next tier collector is looking for nicely maintained as original or restored to original example which they can drive & use a bit, show it, whatever. Those are maybe 20-30% of all 914s out there between preserved (less) & restored.

They're 2 different levels of collector car - with the ultra-low mile originals being maybe a "#0 - Ultra-Concours Museum Quality" level beyond #1. They are never rusted & never repaired, & they're probably less than 1% of all 914s.

So you doing a Euro P&C rebuild with the OE EFI with SSI HEs, using Koni or Bilstein shock/inserts, swapping out Euro TS lens/buckets or just the lenses (maintaining the originals to swap back), or using a cover at the F-sidemarker holes (maintaining the original Warts in storage to swap back) won't hurt your finished nor probably future value.

There are plenty of 356s & 911s/912s out there with numbers matching engines which have been tweaked a bit for more HP & TQ, which don't suffer less value, since they're still restored to originality & period correct.

Not every resto has to be 100% every part as original from the factory, since many of the parts are plain unavailable now.

So feel free to do those options within the envelope of originality, period correct, & within your budget of course.

BTW - There are some polished or painted body color covers for the wart holes which are advertised on evil-bay regularly. They mount over the holes & usually are seen with 914 on them. There may be someone on here who knows about them, or perhaps sells them. Those won't force you to weld in the holes to remove the warts, & be able to revert to original if desired at any future point.

PS - now if you were to do a bigger engine build 2056 - 2.& +/- like a FAT Performance, Raby, etc. - then I'd say to pull the numbers matching motor & EFI & hermetically seal & store it, then get another core 2.0 with which to build the hot motor. Again, an easy-ish step to swap back in the original engine if desired in the future.

PSS - I think that my son's 88 Civic Hatchback DX with the base 1.5L & 5-speed that we refurbed/resto'd together will probably out perform my 73 2L 914 on the straightaway too - probably not on the curves, & definitely not as much fun - but it is surprisingly fun & tossable to drive! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[SKL1]

Had my '71 since new and over the years have "improved" it with all OEM 6 suspension and brakes (won a door local PCA door prize in early 70's with 20% off parts so went wild) and converted to side shifter etc. Never going to sell so resale value doesn't matter to me.
My '73 is totally restored and also looks stock, though also has converted suspension and brakes to run Fuch's, etc. Not selling it either...

Have two boys who inherited the car gene from their dad and grandfather (who drove a 914 and 944 when alive) , so the cars will go to good homes...

[dlkawashima]

Here's a 75 1.8 with 3K miles at Russo & Steele Auction in Monterey to watch for some price envelope punching, with an estimate at $50-60K! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

https://www.pca.org/news/2017-08-15/pickled...es-pebble-beach



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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I believe the estimate is at $40-$50k Tom and I'll go on the record with a prediction of a $41,500 top bid. Agree with the comment that the removed A/C will pull it down. Also, while some may not, I'm dinging it for the fact that it is a '76. But I sure hope I'm low.

I've mentioned in a previous thread that I've seen this car in person, went for a drive in it, and was offered first crack at purchasing it (which I declined). As you might imagine for a 3200 mile car, it was tight as a drum and I've never been in a 914 that rode as well as this one. The one downside was that it was dog slow and the engine didn't run nearly as smoothly as my own '73. Regarding the removal of the A/C, the owner told me he had Yeaman Auto Body do the job, so no worries about the quality of the repair work. As for signs of wear, there really isn't any, other than the carpet oddly pulling away from the gear shift lever.

I've talked to others about the car and virtually all have said they question the car's authenticity. All I can say is that it is easily the cleanest 4 cylinder 914 I've ever seen.

[Tom_T]

Dave,

At the 3100+/- miles it's barely or not even broken in, so being tight doesn't surprise me.

As for the motor being a dawg - as my long time factory trained 914 mechanic says: "There are very few people out there who really understand how to make those [914] cars run right!"

It would be interesting to hear why the authenticity has been questioned.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Larmo63]

Not driving it, modifying it, or worrying about the resale value of your 914 is like not having sex with your smokin hot girlfriend, just so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend.



(Mark NAILS it.) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[PancakePorsche]

I love to drive my original six, but I do wonder how long before some a-hole on the phone moves the engine forward about 12 inches. Luckily when it did recently happen I was in my Silverado.

[porschetub]

I see you're off your meds again Tom (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

No, just fed up with you Mark!

Go pound sand! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

What is pounding sand Tom ..honest don't know? just asking true,besides what is original? IMO these appear to be the most modified cars of any Porsche,FI delete is the main one and then most complain they can't get them running right and spent more money sorting that the original FI if they send it to a shop.
We have different steering wheels,oddball wheels ,non matching exterior paintwork ,the infamous centre mount Weber,fully flared cars with a stock 1.7 to name a few...I could go on.
I haven't been on here long but have seen prices creep over that time,even when a so called original cars come up there's always something that's been altered,don't think the market responses much to that they buy them because they think a low mileage car is better,that infact isn't the real story,low mileage to me = high maintenance been there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .
In my country the offbeat cars that Porsche built have risen in price rather quickly ,944's and 928's have risen sharply ,as for anything 911 based they have gone mental world trends and the demise of the aircooled cars has dealt to that,fact I believe.

[914_7T3]

Appreciate everyone's input on the subject and it appears that the Original cars or those restorations that are kept close to original are the minority in the 914 world and that's OK.

As I have said many times before I dig the conversions and what they can do performance wise. I also respect everyone's decision to build a car to suit their needs and definition of fun. Let's face it these cars are great in all incarnations.

With that being said, put me in the category of preferring a stock car. My bias comes from the fact that I was fortunate to find a '73 2.0 and its one of approx. 4,700 built in that model year and to me that makes it special. Its not a daily driver and its a blast to drive as is. There are a ton of canyon roads around here and I've got no use for any extra power.

Furthermore, like many of you I could also give zero f-cks about resale values as within 90 days I'll be upside down on mine, but it'll never be sold. She'll be driven and enjoyed (no trailer queens for me either).

I think this photo sums it up best and I'll leave it at that.

[Mark Henry]

I see you're off your meds again Tom (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

No, just fed up with you Mark!

Go pound sand! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

What is pounding sand Tom ..honest don't know? just asking true,besides what is original? IMO these appear to be the most modified cars of any Porsche,FI delete is the main one and then most complain they can't get them running right and spent more money sorting that the original FI if they send it to a shop.
We have different steering wheels,oddball wheels ,non matching exterior paintwork ,the infamous centre mount Weber,fully flared cars with a stock 1.7 to name a few...I could go on.
I haven't been on here long but have seen prices creep over that time,even when a so called original cars come up there's always something that's been altered,don't think the market responses much to that they buy them because they think a low mileage car is better,that infact isn't the real story,low mileage to me = high maintenance been there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .
In my country the offbeat cars that Porsche built have risen in price rather quickly ,944's and 928's have risen sharply ,as for anything 911 based they have gone mental world trends and the demise of the aircooled cars has dealt to that,fact I believe.

My bet is Tom doesn't even know what the term mean's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
He either want's me to fill in rat holes (menial work) or go visit a Vietnamese rub and tug. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
He just gets pissey with anyone who doesn't bow down to his greatness and with me in general because I've called him on it a few times. He likes to be argumentative for argument sake and I won't play his games.

Appreciate everyone's input on the subject and it appears that the Original cars or those restorations that are kept close to original are the minority in the 914 world and that's OK.

As I have said many times before I dig the conversions and what they can do performance wise. I also respect everyone's decision to build a car to suit their needs and definition of fun. Let's face it these cars are great in all incarnations.

With that being said, put me in the category of preferring a stock car. My bias comes from the fact that I was fortunate to find a '73 2.0 and its one of approx. 4,700 built in that model year and to me that makes it special. Its not a daily driver and its a blast to drive as is. There are a ton of canyon roads around here and I've got no use for any extra power.

Furthermore, like many of you I could also give zero f-cks about resale values as within 90 days I'll be upside down on mine, but it'll never be sold. She'll be driven and enjoyed (no trailer queens for me either).

I think this photo sums it up best and I'll leave it at that.

That is a nice teen and seeing as it's '73 2.0 which are sought after I would leave it stock. If your into that thing, great, doing what makes you happy is what this hobby is all about.
Screw what others think, in the end do what you want.

On your original question, I do think your car will go up in value, but never 911 or 356 coin. Say 20 years from now your car is worth $100K, which could happen, but by that time a 911 could be hitting close to $250K and 356's going for seven figures.
But then prices for everything will have gone the same way.

Collectors for the most part only want original cars, and are now showing interest in the 914 because besides the cool factor, they are affordable and available.
There is a greater number of collectors today than ever before, because they either did well in life and/or got a big inheritance. These are the cars of their childhood dreams and the shear number of them are driving prices up.

[Cal]

I agree with 9147T3.....while I understand and appreciate modified 914's my preference is originality. It took me 2 years to find the '74 2.0L that I currently own. It's had one repaint due to clear coat failure in the early 80's....otherwise it's original and never been restored. Original 914's are very rare nowadays.

[mepstein]

I agree with 9147T3.....while I understand and appreciate modified 914's my preference is originality. It took me 2 years to find the '74 2.0L that I currently own. It's had one repaint due to clear coat failure in the early 80's....otherwise it's original and never been restored. Original 914's are very rare nowadays.

Car and garage are looking great.

[kgruen2]

Appreciate everyone's input on the subject and it appears that the Original cars or those restorations that are kept close to original are the minority in the 914 world and that's OK.

As I have said many times before I dig the conversions and what they can do performance wise. I also respect everyone's decision to build a car to suit their needs and definition of fun. Let's face it these cars are great in all incarnations.

With that being said, put me in the category of preferring a stock car. My bias comes from the fact that I was fortunate to find a '73 2.0 and its one of approx. 4,700 built in that model year and to me that makes it special. Its not a daily driver and its a blast to drive as is. There are a ton of canyon roads around here and I've got no use for any extra power.

Furthermore, like many of you I could also give zero f-cks about resale values as within 90 days I'll be upside down on mine, but it'll never be sold. She'll be driven and enjoyed (no trailer queens for me either).

I think this photo sums it up best and I'll leave it at that.

AAhhhh! Topanga and PCH. Great roads to drive the teener on.