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> Desperate for some Help With Microsquirt, Beyond Frustrated
Mblizzard
post Aug 25 2017, 04:54 PM
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I have been trying to get my conversion done in time for Okteenerfest. I have run up against a brick wall and just cant seem to figure out what i am doing wrong.

If anyone can help me by looking at my tune files or providing insight it will be very much appreciated.

I can get th car to idle but nothing beyond that. Any use of the throttle is less than impressive and almost useless. Meaning it bogs down and does not accelerate at all.

I have no clue what i am missing.

2056 with new low impeadance injectors. Bosch Wideband O2 sensor.

Really need some suggestions. Not sure if i can post the tune files here. But will try.
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Craigers17
post Aug 25 2017, 05:29 PM
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Hey Mike,

I'm just a newbie here, so I'm kinda talking out of my arse...but I'm interested on the most novice level about microsquirt as well, only because about 10-15years ago I owned a 74' model that had stock efi, and it plagued me for awhile.

That being said, I was doing some research on the interwebs and came across a video linked to thedubshop.net. I'm sure they are probably well known here, but I don't know, nor can I speak of personal experience with them.

However, they seem to be very knowledgeable about the whole topic. Just say'n, ...if you're in a jam, they might be a good resource....for what it's worth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

-Craig
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db9146
post Aug 26 2017, 05:37 AM
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Mike,
Might want to try the bird board as well. I believe there might be more folks who have gone the 'squirt route there.

You might also email the guys at DIY Autotune to see if they can help or point you in a direction for some professional help.

Dee
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Mark Henry
post Aug 26 2017, 08:02 AM
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Can you post your build details, or if you already have a thread on this a linky.
Plus list all your values, some one may spot an error.

The issue you are posting could be a simple program input error, I once chased something similar for a whole day only to realize I entered the wrong fuel cut value in one spot.
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r_towle
post Aug 26 2017, 08:21 AM
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It's too rich
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jd74914
post Aug 26 2017, 10:26 AM
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Even some screen shots of the fuel and timing tables would be helpful to start off with; they're pretty easy to sanity check. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Where did you get the flow rate information for your injectors?

If you want to send me your map I can take a look-I'm noof a big MS guy but I have played around with some systems. My email is my username here @gmail.com
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Mblizzard
post Aug 26 2017, 04:32 PM
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Not sure what's happening but only running on 2 cylinders. 3/4 is dead! Will have to check some connections.
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Montreal914
post Aug 27 2017, 01:33 AM
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Don't give up!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

I too am looking into this in the near future and your thread has been very inspiring. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

I hope you get your engine running beyond idling and I know people here will help you get there.

Good luck, and keep the faith. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
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Mblizzard
post Aug 27 2017, 02:02 PM
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Ok so made progress. Had some values wrong made some changes. It run but like crap. Will contact DIY and see if someone would like to take a shot at it.

Actually drove it.
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Mark Henry
post Aug 27 2017, 05:08 PM
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You said you have a bosch wide band. Are you using it through MS instead of a meter?
Where do you have the sensor mounted? If it's on the muffler tip the sensor may not be getting hot enough and not reading correctly.

Without values and details I can't be of help.
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ConeDodger
post Aug 27 2017, 05:48 PM
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McMark is pretty good with Microsquirt.
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wndsrfr
post Aug 27 2017, 07:14 PM
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I think that first you need to be firing on all 4 cylinders and know that you're getting fuel injected on all 4.
Once that's done, your map should at least get some response if you're getting a good manifold pressure signal, so look carefully at that using a vacuum guage hooked in with a "T" connector somewhere that will show the manifold pressure. If you're on ITB's the manifold pressure signal will be very choppy & hard for the ECU to follow well. For that reason I switched my SDS injection system to throttle position only. I'm going to try to attach my SDS map--it's an excel spreadsheet. SDS has a dead nuts simple approach to the map for fuel pulse duration: Multiply the TP "value" in column B by the RPM fuel "Value" in column E to get the injector duration pulse each time it fires.
Hope this will help a bit...

Attached File  SDS_Remap_TP_Sensing_8.xls ( 32.5k ) Number of downloads: 117
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jpnovak
post Aug 27 2017, 09:13 PM
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you mention the car idles. Does it idle smoothly? If so, I would expect that you are firing 4 cylinders.

Is your WBO2 reading in TunerStudio (or Megatune?) If so, what is the AFR reading? Did you setup TS to read the WBO2 correctly?

If you PASS the first two steps above the next question is: Have you started to tune the car? Do you understand tuning the car - meaning recognizing Lean vs Rich? EFI is exactly the same as adjusting the mixture with a screwdriver or changing jets in a carb with the exception of using keystrokes and instantaneous feedback.

If the car is lean, add more fuel. If its rich, take fuel away. TunerStudio will even do this for you if your target AFR table is good.

The car will absolutely run like crap if you have not tuned the car.
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falcor75
post Aug 27 2017, 10:40 PM
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1. Pull the plugs to make SURE you get spark on all cylinders.
2. Pull the injectors to mare SURE you get fuel on all cylinders.
3. Once you have fuel and spark post screenshots of all your settings and tables in the microsquirt.
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Mark Henry
post Aug 28 2017, 07:50 AM
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QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Aug 27 2017, 09:14 PM) *

I think that first you need to be firing on all 4 cylinders and know that you're getting fuel injected on all 4.
Once that's done, your map should at least get some response if you're getting a good manifold pressure signal, so look carefully at that using a vacuum guage hooked in with a "T" connector somewhere that will show the manifold pressure. If you're on ITB's the manifold pressure signal will be very choppy & hard for the ECU to follow well. For that reason I switched my SDS injection system to throttle position only. I'm going to try to attach my SDS map--it's an excel spreadsheet. SDS has a dead nuts simple approach to the map for fuel pulse duration: Multiply the TP "value" in column B by the RPM fuel "Value" in column E to get the injector duration pulse each time it fires.
Hope this will help a bit...

Attached File  SDS_Remap_TP_Sensing_8.xls ( 32.5k ) Number of downloads: 117


This why I keep asking for some info on your system, ITB may never have good enough vac signal and running TPS only solves 90% of low vac issues.
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Mblizzard
post Aug 28 2017, 08:42 AM
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The specifics

Tuner Studios MSv3.0.28 –
Firmware MS2 /Extra3.4.2 release 2016421

Porsche 914
4-cyl 2056 CC displacement
High impedance injectors Flow at 3-BAR 134 CC
Bosch TPS
MAP GM 3 Bar
GM Open element IAT
AC Delco 213-928 GM Multi-Purpose Temperature Sensor
36 in 1 Crank wheel VR sensor
VW Passat IAC Bosch 0280140512

Current Tune Attached File  Blizzard_2017_08_28_08.06.07.msq ( 118.86k ) Number of downloads: 99

Attached ImageAttached ImageAttached Image[attachmentid=617
927]Attached ImageAttached Image


Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
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Mblizzard
post Aug 28 2017, 08:53 AM
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The one thing I noticed is that my MAP seem high even at idle. Only going down to the 40's? Wonder if my MAP calibration is incorrect. Using straight GM 3-bar from DIY.

It does look like I did not have the Barometer Sensor set to the same as the MAP

Attached Image
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Mblizzard
post Aug 28 2017, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE(jpnovak @ Aug 27 2017, 07:13 PM) *

you mention the car idles. Does it idle smoothly? If so, I would expect that you are firing 4 cylinders.

Is your WBO2 reading in TunerStudio (or Megatune?) If so, what is the AFR reading? Did you setup TS to read the WBO2 correctly?

If you PASS the first two steps above the next question is: Have you started to tune the car? Do you understand tuning the car - meaning recognizing Lean vs Rich? EFI is exactly the same as adjusting the mixture with a screwdriver or changing jets in a carb with the exception of using keystrokes and instantaneous feedback.

If the car is lean, add more fuel. If its rich, take fuel away. TunerStudio will even do this for you if your target AFR table is good.

The car will absolutely run like crap if you have not tuned the car.


I resolved the cylinders. Ground wire came lose. Seems to be running on all cylinders.

I think I do have the understanding on how to tune but I think I must have something incorrect because the efforts to tune do not produce the expected results.

I think I had an issue with the MAP setting and the injector sizes.
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Chris H.
post Aug 28 2017, 11:01 AM
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I feel your pain. I have an EG33 so can't help too much but the one thing I overlooked was the condition of the plugs. As Rich mentioned, you are, or at least were, running rich at some point. It's just part of the dialing in process.

Here's what my plugs looked like when I pulled them:

Attached Image

And then I heated them with an ordinary canister torch:

Just like new and there was an immediate improvement in the performance.

Attached Image

Wish I could tell you things are going well, but due to the challenges with the EG33 VR sensors I went back to the stock ECU for now.
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Mark Henry
post Aug 28 2017, 11:14 AM
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You're running to lean for an aircooled engine, I'd be aiming for 13.5:1 max, 12.5 is OK. The heads actually get some cooling from the cool fuel charge.
I can run 14:1 because I have nickies, but after that I start seeing a rise in head temps.

I do agree the 134CC injectors are to small. I didn't look at charts for very long, but do you know what your injector duty cycle is? You should never run more than 80%.
Also many injectors are designed to run at a certain duty cycle and do not perform well when they are out of their OE range.

For example 914 L-jet 1.8 injector is somewhere in the mid 250cc range and they do not work well at all with aftermarket systems, where as 2.0 d-jet injectors are huge but perform well at almost any duty cycle.
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