OT water in compressor, how to minimize/eliminate this? |
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OT water in compressor, how to minimize/eliminate this? |
914 RZ-1 |
Sep 9 2017, 06:16 PM
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#1
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 683 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
If anyone has any experience with air compressors, I'd like some help/advice regarding the following:
I have a 30 gallon Craftsman compressor (built in 2008). 8.6/6.4 CFM @ 40/90 psi. I have a moisture filter before the hose hook-up. 1. RUSTY WATER IN THE TANK When I drain the tank, there is always rusty water, maybe 1/4 cup or so. I know this is normal, but how much is supposed to come out? Is there an standard/typical amount that is normal? 2. WATER IN THE HOSE I also get air in the hose that comes out whenever I use air tools. I get a few drops every few minutes. When I bleed the moisture filter, no moisture comes out. 3. IN-LINE FILTER I'm thinking of getting another in-line moisture filter. I will be painting some parts soon and want to make sure that I don't spray water with the paint. What do I look for in a decent, in-line moisture filter? Thanks! |
PlantMan |
Sep 9 2017, 06:26 PM
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 435 Joined: 14-May 14 From: Mission Viejo Member No.: 17,352 Region Association: Southern California |
I just picked up an auto drain valve for my compressor, about $30 on Amazon. You can wire it to your electrical supply so it runs when your compressor is on. I think cheap insurance to save the compressor.
Invest in a couple good filters, water/oil a coalescing type. I know if you are painting this is really important. You can even try the cheaper HF kind, some people have had good luck with these. I have a good Snap-On that came with my unit but you do need to service them from time to time. Good luck! |
ConeDodger |
Sep 9 2017, 06:27 PM
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#3
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,577 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California |
One of the effects of compressing the air is to cause the precipitation of water. Moisture filters keep the air from effecting your paint if you are spraying but most guys and shops, when they power down the compressor, bleed the air and drain the tank. You shouldn't be getting a quarter cup unless you live somewhere really humid and work your compressor for long hours.
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914 RZ-1 |
Sep 9 2017, 06:35 PM
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#4
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 683 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
I just picked up an auto drain valve for my compressor, about $30 on Amazon. You can wire it to your electrical supply so it runs when your compressor is on. I think cheap insurance to save the compressor. Invest in a couple good filters, water/oil a coalescing type. I know if you are painting this is really important. You can even try the cheaper HF kind, some people have had good luck with these. I have a good Snap-On that came with my unit but you do need to service them from time to time. Good luck! Would this work: https://www.amazon.com/TCP-Global-Filter-pa...ilter&psc=1 Is this what you are referring to? It's not $30, though: https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Automatic...+air+compressor |
DM_2000 |
Sep 9 2017, 06:45 PM
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 217 Joined: 16-August 17 From: PA Member No.: 21,351 Region Association: None |
Air is like a sponge, compress it and water vapor has no space to reside so it falls out, this is normal. The more ambient humidity and more air you use, the more water you will get. The air compressor isn't making water from hydrogen and oxygen.
Your current moisture filter is becoming overwhelmed, you might need to run 2 in series or a larger capacity one. Better moisture filters have an auto float drain and are worth the extra $. A second tank and / or hard piped shop with drain legs can be helpful as well. If the line from the compressor pump to tank is close to the air outlet, water does not have a chance to fall out of the air and will be carried over to your moisture filter during times of high air use. If you get a timer style auto tank drain ,while inexpensive, they waste air as they are always in operation even if you are not using any air ( RE: they will drain even if there isn't any water. ) . The better ones ( $ ) drain only when there is water and won't let any air be lost in the process. Compressed air is an expensive 4th utility ( Electricity, water, nat gas , air ) so fix those system leaks if you have any! |
PlantMan |
Sep 9 2017, 08:07 PM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 435 Joined: 14-May 14 From: Mission Viejo Member No.: 17,352 Region Association: Southern California |
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015IY9VJ...=UTF8&psc=1
This is the unit I purchased. I set it to run for a couple seconds every hour when the compressor is on. I have a 60 gal unit so a few seconds of open air is not a big deal to me. The filter you selected is all right for use at the source. Get yourself a wall mount unit too: http://www.tptools.com/RTI-Mini-Desiccant-...6.html?b=d*8089 Obviously this is expensive for most people but I think worth the cost for clean air. DM-2000 makes some very good points in his post as does ConeDodger. |
914 RZ-1 |
Sep 9 2017, 08:30 PM
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#7
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 683 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
Thanks for the info, but the links don't work for me (DNS Error). If you give me more info, maybe I can just find it.
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914 RZ-1 |
Sep 9 2017, 08:33 PM
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#8
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 683 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
Air is like a sponge, compress it and water vapor has no space to reside so it falls out, this is normal. The more ambient humidity and more air you use, the more water you will get. The air compressor isn't making water from hydrogen and oxygen. Your current moisture filter is becoming overwhelmed, you might need to run 2 in series or a larger capacity one. Better moisture filters have an auto float drain and are worth the extra $. A second tank and / or hard piped shop with drain legs can be helpful as well. If the line from the compressor pump to tank is close to the air outlet, water does not have a chance to fall out of the air and will be carried over to your moisture filter during times of high air use. If you get a timer style auto tank drain ,while inexpensive, they waste air as they are always in operation even if you are not using any air ( RE: they will drain even if there isn't any water. ) . The better ones ( $ ) drain only when there is water and won't let any air be lost in the process. Compressed air is an expensive 4th utility ( Electricity, water, nat gas , air ) so fix those system leaks if you have any! Thanks for the info! The filter is located right at the exit from the tank. I have a short piece of hose I can use to relocate the filter farther out, and also add another filter. I might add an in-line filter as well. Still looking into the tank drain. |
PlantMan |
Sep 9 2017, 09:46 PM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 435 Joined: 14-May 14 From: Mission Viejo Member No.: 17,352 Region Association: Southern California |
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porschetub |
Sep 10 2017, 12:06 AM
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#10
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,697 Joined: 25-July 15 From: New Zealand Member No.: 18,995 Region Association: None |
I would be inclined to look for a replacement,if your receiver is rusty not much need to proceed further and it will become a safety hazard,auto drain valves are great and work well as stated.
Go for the biggest unit you can afford and fit a water separator and autodrain,make sure you use a minimum of plastic hose as it helps little with moisture problems. Go for a 10 to 12 cfm unit and you can do pretty all you may need,if you need more capacity add a remote receiver for light sand blasting for example. My previous experience was with 2 large dual stage intercooled 3 phase compressors making 30 bar pressure max running 2 very large air start tanks....huge amounts of water made like you wouldn't believe. |
jacksun |
Sep 10 2017, 06:35 AM
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 8-August 13 From: mi Member No.: 16,224 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
while not convenient, I used two bags of ice at the lowest point of my hose and routed the hose upward after the ice. drain the hose after each painting. you could coil your hose in a large bucket and place ice over the coil.
here are a couple possibilities, one for at the input to the spray gun and the other, while expensive should cure the problem. at the gun expensive images from eastwood I used the "at the gun" and the ice and cured my water problem. I also kept an eye on the humidity level and planned my painting accordingly. |
DM_2000 |
Sep 10 2017, 04:10 PM
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 217 Joined: 16-August 17 From: PA Member No.: 21,351 Region Association: None |
I would be inclined to look for a replacement,if your receiver is rusty not much need to proceed further and it will become a safety hazard,auto drain valves are great and work well as stated. From what I've seen, most compressor tanks are not painted inside so rusty water is inevitable. My previous experience was with 2 large dual stage intercooled 3 phase compressors making 30 bar pressure max running 2 very large air start tanks....huge amounts of water made like you wouldn't believe. Working in a power plant that uses piston engines running on natural gas? ( Or maybe turbines on nat gas ) |
DM_2000 |
Sep 10 2017, 04:26 PM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 217 Joined: 16-August 17 From: PA Member No.: 21,351 Region Association: None |
Thanks for the info! The filter is located right at the exit from the tank. I have a short piece of hose I can use to relocate the filter farther out, and also add another filter. I might add an in-line filter as well. Still looking into the tank drain. You are welcome. To clarify a small point. The compressor pump to tank entry vs where you get the air out is the distance I was speaking of. This distance is fixed unless you make major design changes. Air needs some settling / cooling time otherwise the moisture will be carried over to the outlet and past the moisture filter. Also, once water has fallen out of air in the tank, it won't get picked back up to any great degree but is still needs to be drained. Take a look at best practices for laying out a shop air piping system. If you can mimic that even on a small scale it will help. |
DM_2000 |
Sep 10 2017, 04:30 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 217 Joined: 16-August 17 From: PA Member No.: 21,351 Region Association: None |
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914 RZ-1 |
Sep 11 2017, 08:34 PM
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#15
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 683 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
Thanks for the info, but the links don't work for me (DNS Error). If you give me more info, maybe I can just find it. Link is fixed. Got it, thanks! I got another filter, so I have 2 of them. I'll have to see how well they work before deciding if I want to spend $190 on the one in the link. I'm assuming it works really well! |
914 RZ-1 |
Sep 11 2017, 08:42 PM
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#16
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 683 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
It seems from more research that I've done that the moisture filter needs to be about 25' away from the tank to let the water vapor cool enough so the filter can take it out easier. The ice trick works as well. Some have suggested mounting the line to the water filter above the tank so the water goes back into the tank.
I don't want to run line all over my garage, so think a possible solution is to attach a 25' hose to the tank and coil it next to it, then attach this to the air filters I have mounted on the wall, then have my working hose off of this. I also got a disposable in-line dryer. Thanks to all for your input and advice. Once I get this all set up, I'll run some tools and try to remember to report back. |
914 RZ-1 |
Sep 11 2017, 08:47 PM
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#17
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 683 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015IY9VJ...=UTF8&psc=1 This is the unit I purchased. I set it to run for a couple seconds every hour when the compressor is on. I have a 60 gal unit so a few seconds of open air is not a big deal to me. Do you have a picture of the tank drain valve mounted? I'm having a hard time visualizing how this is mounted. |
jmitro |
Sep 11 2017, 08:55 PM
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#18
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 713 Joined: 23-July 15 From: Oklahoma Member No.: 18,986 Region Association: None |
I don't want to run line all over my garage, so think a possible solution is to attach a 25' hose to the tank and coil it next to it, then attach this to the air filters I have mounted on the wall, then have my working hose off of this. I also got a disposable in-line dryer. that's what I did. It works well |
IronHillRestorations |
Sep 11 2017, 09:20 PM
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#19
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,716 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None |
Steel air pipe helps, but it's a hassle to install, and ideally you'd either treat the inside or get galvanized.
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DM_2000 |
Sep 12 2017, 03:43 PM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 217 Joined: 16-August 17 From: PA Member No.: 21,351 Region Association: None |
And never ever use PVC or other hard plastic pipe. Oil carried over from the compressor will deteriorate the plastic causing it to burst. If a pipe carrying water bursts, it will just leak. If a pipe carrying air bursts, the expanding air will propel plastic pieces long distances.
Running a fan across the tank will help cool things. It is still good to have a dryer at the tank and a second one down stream. In your situation I'd string some ( 10 ft would be fine ) hose across the shop to the 2nd dryer. With a dryer at the tank outlet, I would not be concerned about having the hose run down hill. Also, the only time water would run down hill is when you are not using air. |
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