So Far... No Good, brand new motor - useless Options

[gfulcher]

So, I don't have lots of spare time to begin with, and it's been a year-long struggle to get my 914 back on the road (busted my crankshaft in the 2.6 Big Four last Fall).. Anyhow, replaced it with a brand new (everything) 2.0 built by a reputable builder in the area years ago. (he unfortunately died of cancer a couple years back). Got the engine in the car a few weeks ago, got it running this past weekend, took yesterday off to make the final adjustments.. Running great - cool, good oil pressure - no problems - actually the easiest first-start I've ever had with a brand new engine.. Drove it about 60 miles yesterday mixed highway and backroads...

I was going to head to the garage this morning to make some final adjustments, change the oil again yaddy yaddy yaddy - fired it up, noticed my oil pressure went from 60psi to zero right after ignition. Turned the car off immediately, naturally, and looked underneath to see all of the oil cascading out of the engine into a puddle on my driveway.

SHIT.

after it all drained in one place, I rolled the car back and sitting on top of the puddle was what looks like a galley plug of sorts - but not the size of the one that covers the end of the cam shaft - this one is about 1.5cm wide by .5cm tall - looks to be aluminum on the outside with a brass inner ring.

Here's a Picture

Now, the oil all spilled out on the front end of the motor - so I'm hoping this is part of an ancillary system (ie: won't require case splitting) but I'm not confident of that. Before I yank it all apart AGAIN (waiting for the tow truck right now), any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

-greg-

[ArtechnikA]

lots of the engine builders tap the galleries and installed threaded plugs.

with a lot of grease on the tap and careful work you're probably okay not getting chips into the engine, but it'd be a good idea to change the filter and clean the strainer after a few moments of operation after the plug(s) are in...

[gfulcher]

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ May 21 2005, 10:28 AM)

lots of the engine builders tap the galleries and installed threaded plugs. with a lot of grease on the tap and careful work you're probably okay not getting chips into the engine, but it'd be a good idea to change the filter and clean the strainer after a few moments of operation after the plug(s) are in...

So, this is a press-in situation. Was hoping as much - but the bigger question: how many more of these are there to pop out... and what would cause it aside from excessive pressure. Are there any other replacement options?

Thanks,

-greg-

[Jake Raby]

Yep... Thats a main oil galley plug.

This is a VERY common problem with a new engine and a pressed in plug from 30 years ago.

There is a very good chance that it came from the front of the engine adjacent to the oil filter housing adaptor. Those plugs see the highest pressure and simply pop out sometimes..

Now....

You are not totally screwed- do this...

Pull the engine, rip off the blower housing and you can gain access to the area where the plug popped out of, it should be staring you in the face. go buy a 3/8 NPT tap and some wheel bearing grease and a 3/8 NPT galley plug (I sell them f yu can't find them locally)

What you are going to do is tap the case and install the galley plug to block your new orfice that was created when the plug popped out.

Now, the main problem will be with foreign object debris getting into the oil system and wiping out the bearings so BE VERY CAREFUL AND TAKE YOUR TIME!

Scoat the tap heavily with the wheel bearing grease so the debris it creates as it cuts the case will stick to the tap. This works very well if you take your time and remove the tap every 1/2 turn or so and clean the debris off and regrease the tap.. make sure the tap is straight and go in with it deep enough so the galley plug will thread in with atleast 3 threads.

clean the area well with carb cleaner or another solvent and install the galley plug coated with either loctite 518 or 574 and you are finished.

The builder of the engine SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS WHEN THE ENGINE WAS BUILT!!! We drill and tap every galley in every engine that leaves the shop- the factory method of installing the galley plugs is terriable..

Good luck!

BTW- There are 5 of these in total... 2 at the front of the engine on the 3-4 side and 3 behind the flywheel. The lower one on the front end of the case is the most common one to pop out because it sees high presure on start up due to the oil filter being just after it... I'd tap them all while the engine was out.

[gfulcher]

Thanks Jake for that...

So, I'm of the impression that the best way to repair this is to split the case and replace all of the galley plugs, including the ones behind the flywheel with thread-in type plugs.. I would hate to go through the tapping process with the engine together, just to wonder if I'm going to take the entire engine out with the chance of debris getting into the oil system.

Given my general lack of time these days, I'm thinking I'll take the motor out, split it and then bring it to my builder and have him do the machine work... Nothing more cash won't fix, right?

Also Jake.. I need to chat with you about my now-busted 2.6L.. Nobody around here (Northeast) can right-out tell me what the crank specs are - which worries me..

That's a project for another time though!

-greg-

[brp914]

I've had them pop out from the back and front. These things are all over the engine, but the trouble makers are the 4 along the back bottom behind the flywheel and the 2 in front right next to the oil cooler. If you dont want this to happen again get them tapped and plugged. Metal debris will get into the oil galleys, so the engine needs to come completely apart. The galleys need to be thoroughly flushed out, including the pressure valves. Sorry about the bad news, but atleast you caught it before damage was done.

[gfulcher]

QUOTE (brp914 @ May 21 2005, 11:08 AM)

I've had them pop out from the back and front. These things are all over the engine, but the trouble makers are the 4 along the back bottom behind the flywheel and the 2 in front right next to the oil cooler. If you dont want this to happen again get them tapped and plugged. Metal debris will get into the oil galleys, so the engine needs to come completely apart. The galleys need to be thoroughly flushed out, including the pressure valves. Sorry about the bad news, but atleast you caught it before damage was done.

Yeah - that's what I feared.. I'm just pissed off right now, and wondering if I even want to frig with this car any more - It's been off the road 70% of the last five years (including winters)... Tough when you don't have any time to get stuff done - at least uninterrupted time (ie: whole weekends).

Anybody want to buy a '72 914 with TONS of parts? ;-)

Enough cash and I'd consider it...

-greg

[Hydra]

with no intention of highjacking the thread.
does anyone have pictures of those plugs on the engine, cuz i can't figure out where those are located (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif) . and since i'm about to rebuild my 1.8, i would like to get the job done the right way.
thanks
Nick

[brp914]

in back - already tapped and plugged

[Allan]

Here are the ones in the front.

[brp914]

front : In this case I got lazy and got some alum. bar stock and filed it to size and epoxied and jammed it in there and then staked perimeter when what happened to gfulcher happened to me. It actually lasted for years until engine came out for other reasons. PO had already tapped/plugged other one next to it. I didn't take pics of other similar plugs down right side because it was difficult to hold camera while taking pic, but you get the idea

[Dead Air]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)

I'm sorry to hear the bad news. But your timing could not have been better, for me that is (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

What everyones talking about is a common plumbing plug right. Galvinized, with tapered threads and a square head. Jake said 527 rtv on the threads?

[gfulcher]

Hey all..

First off, I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and support..

Second, spent a few hours last night yanking them motor out (again) with some friends.

Sure enough, the lower plug - first in line from the oil pump - popped out. Tore the entire motor down last night and it's ready for some machine work.

Here's the gallery of the entire process...

Engine In... Engine Out... Engine Apart

-greg-

[redshift]

Hey Greg, I took a look at your pics, nice to see you can still smile..

NO EXAMS PLEASE.


M

[gfulcher]

QUOTE (redshift @ May 23 2005, 07:31 AM)

Hey Greg, I took a look at your pics, nice to see you can still smile.. NO EXAMS PLEASE. M

Oh, I wasn't smilin'.. That's my best friend Cary with the gloves on - I snapped that picture and ran like hell - hands over ass...

No, seriously - all things considered, it's time well spent - granted, not as well spent as actually DRIVING the car - but you all know that routine!

I brought the engine to my builder this morning, and he's going to drill out / tap / hot tank & plug the case up and I'll have it back late next week. ( no time to do it myself ).

Enjoy a drive for me...

-greg-