where the hell do i find, a good 2.0 MPS..... Options

[bd1308]

PP has them NLA, so i am sure AA has them NLA too.....i did see them one time offered at over $1000 and i KNOW i dont have that kinda money...unless i sell my stash (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif).....of computer stuff.

So, where do i get/rebuild my MPS so i can get back on the road without putting along with the damn car running rich.


I just want to thank you for helping me solve this puzzle.....this is it....i remember now WHY i replaced the hose from the MPS to the plenum in the first place.....i thought it was a vaccuum leak in the hose, which got worse, I thought it was a fuel filter when it was the MPS/Dizzy at fault.....

I *DO* have a 1.7 MPS......would that work okay or would it be way too lean..?

I read from my BOSCH fuel injection book that if you unplug TS2, the engine will run more rich....but IIRC if you unplug the CHT, it wont run at all.....so is the book referring to the intake air temp sensor, and could this possibly come close to offsetting the lean condition caused by the new 1.7 MPS ???

I'm just tossing ideas around. This condition is getting progressively worse now though.

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (bd1308 @ May 21 2005, 10:11 PM)

So, where do i get/rebuild my MPS

you can't. but maybe bleyseng can help you. they're getting rarer by the minute ...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) Andy

[bd1308]

will a 1.7 mps work better than a busted 2.0 mps......that's all i'm asking.....should i wait to put it in, or if it indeed will work better i will put it in first thing.....

[lapuwali]

It's my considered opinion that in a few years the only 914s (or any other D-Jet cars) still using an MPS will be concours cars. All the rest will either be running carbs, or an aftermarket EFI system. MPSs are essentially unrepairable, and they're getting so expensive that the cheaper EFI systems will be price competitive pretty soon.

Before someone asks, it's not practical to make a replacement MPS diagphram, as the original is made out of some unobtainable material (some say beryllium, which is expensive, hard to machine, and highly toxic), and at least one attempt at remaking them in other materials produced units that at least Cap'n Krusty said are junk. I'll take his word on that.

It's also not practical to make an electronic replacement of an MPS using a modern solid-state MAP sensor, due to the way the MPS ties in with the stock ECU. I'll direct you to Paul Anders' site on D-Jet (use Google) for all of the gory details of how the MPS works, but suffice to say that you'd need to duplicate about 80% of an aftermarket ECU to make an electronic MPS that just plugged into the stock ECU. It would be easier to just add the remaining 20% of missing stuff and have a full, tunable aftermarket ECU.

[bd1308]

okay...so a diafragm is junk.....DAMN.....this sucks. really. i guess it's time to read on megasquirt. shit. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) where do i try a replacement diafragm(sp?)....?

[sixnotfour]

QUOTE

Before someone asks, it's not practical to make a replacement MPS diagphram, as the original is made out of some unobtainable material

[Rhodes71/914]

Can't the 1.7 MPS be re-calibrated to work on a 2.0.
I thought that Jeff Bowlsby does this.

[redshift]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif) OH MY GOD! WE'RE RICH! I have enough beryllium diaphrams to fix at least 10 cars!

They are in Yomamaha NS-1000s, a couple pairs... anyone feeling like cutting up my speakers? (they are for sale... 1 good 2.0 mps, and $2k/pr) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) Fine! Go on to your carbs! hahahaha! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif)

I don't think they have any in them, but... if the center of an MPS tootsie roll is made out of aluminum, sputtered with beryllium, I highly suggest everyone taking at least one look at the Eye of Fly, t'least onced..

I don't see why an MPS can't be reengineered.... with the way you test them, I don't see why you can just hook a straw up instead, and hold a vac.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

Yes, I am tired, sue me.


M

[Mueller]

QUOTE

I don't see why an MPS can't be reengineered....

they have, and by a few people....it wouldn't be impossible to remanufacture them with brand new berrilium copper diaphams, the problem lies in not enough "real" interst and paying parties...figure at a minimum $300 each if you had a minimum order of 20 or so....I don't know anyone that is willing to pony up $6000 for a bunch of parts that might be sitting on a shelf for a months or worse case a few years....

[muddboy]

was just cleaning out my storage closet today... and among the stuff i found was a stash of 5 MPS's. I know that one of them has to be from a 2.0L (since it took one off of one) the others were given me by a german/mechanic friend of mine.

[redshift]

QUOTE (Mueller @ May 22 2005, 02:34 AM)

QUOTE I don't see why an MPS can't be reengineered.... they have, and by a few people....it wouldn't be impossible to remanufacture them with brand new berrilium copper diaphams, the problem lies in not enough "real" interst and paying parties...figure at a minimum $300 each if you had a minimum order of 20 or so....I don't know anyone that is willing to pony up $6000 for a bunch of parts that might be sitting on a shelf for a months or worse case a few years....

They are beryllium sputtered copper?

So it's the diaphram, and what else, included in a rebuild?


M

[lapuwali]

You'll note that I didn't say it was impossible, just impractical. The cost, as Mueller pointed out, of working up tooling and materials required to make new diagphrams that work EXACTLY like the stock units do, is too high to make it economically worthwhile. His $300 estimate may very well be LOW, and that's still only the diagphram. That doesn't include the cost of actually rebuilding and recalibrating the MPS with the new part.

If concours quality 914s ever become desirable enough, and expensive enough, then someone will eventually make these, at a very high price. People happily rebuild MFI injection pumps for $1500 a throw. 5-10 years from now, I'd guesstimate a rebuilt MPS that actually works may be sold for a similar price.

Now, the clever thing would be to make up an ECU kit that hid entirely inside the stock ECU housing, and hid a modern solid state MAP sensor inside an MPS housing (so there are no extra hoses). Now, you'd have a stock-appearing setup that would be enough for a concours judge that worked, and was repairable using readily available parts.

[ChrisFoley]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ May 22 2005, 03:07 AM)

Now, the clever thing would be to make up an ECU kit that hid entirely inside the stock ECU housing, and hid a modern solid state MAP sensor inside an MPS housing

That gets my vote. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Dr Evil]

Look up Jeff Bowlsby. He recalibrates them for not too much $$$.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ May 22 2005, 03:07 AM)

People happily rebuild MFI injection pumps for $1500 a throw.

we're not exactly happy about it, but it is still on the value scale considering the performance for the price.

i'm going to need one done pretty soon; i just hope i can get to it while the few guys with the tools and experience are still alive...

so far, the comparable 'modern' FI systems are still more expensive.

i'd guess there'd be money to be made building up a CARB-certified plug-n-play direct replacement EFI for D- and L-Jet cars. unless the CA law changes yet again, '76 914 and 912E guys are going to be really hurting...

[wilchek]

they are rebuidlable and are done for 150.00 buck. No it is not the proper diaphram, but they work for the most part. Check out Brad's site. He even admits to using one that was rebuilt with no problems. Some people say that they do not respond as quick but others have not noticed any difference. Either way it is worth trying for 150.00 bucks. They only problem is that the company that does it, only does it through a retailer so you have to call GPR or AA and have them send it. Bret Instruments are the rebuilders. Check out the Q&A at the bottom of the page

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/manif...sure_sensor.htm

[skline]

I have one sitting here, I tried to sell it on Ebay and nobody bought it. I figured there wasnt any interest in it. Whats a guy to do?

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (skline @ May 22 2005, 09:48 AM)

I have one sitting here, I tried to sell it on Ebay and nobody bought it. I figured there wasnt any interest in it. Whats a guy to do?

the problem with EBay is trust.

a perfect, functional MPS LOOKS just like an expensive paperweight.

that's where a forum like this is good - you get a feeling for who you can trust.

[markb]

Scott, what do you want for it? I'm sure we need one at the shop.

[skline]

I had it up on the Bay for $150 on a buy it now. Its freshly rebuilt and ready to go. It is the 043 so it is for a 2 liter. Aaron said it would go for around 2 or 300 but nobody even bid on it.