Weber 44 IDF's - keep - or find original d-jet? Options

[injunmort]

have at it bro. but a statement like you want more power than d-jet is capable of is moronic. you can get more power, less longeivty out of a 2.0l type 4, but d-jet is not the limiting factor. displacement, compression ratios, flow, etc, are. d-jet works for up to 2500cc without cam or ecu mods. so, flow your head, deck your cylinders, do cams, and run 44's. oh, wait, then its not a stock 2.0l type 4, then,is it. no, now you are in raby territory. great engines with the r&d to back up, but at $20k you get what you pay for. whoever told you 44's are a better delivery fuel system is an idiot, ever though they dont work on allot of 914's.

[kgruen2]

Haven't read all the posts, but some referred to MPG. Just a note - I'm running 44's on a 2270 and even with hard driving, I'm getting 20mpg on the average. Got 25+ on a 2500 mile road trip. High teens with a heavy foot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Gatornapper]

As you are running a 2270, I know it wouldn't apply - but still would be interested in knowing the sizes of your venturi's, main jet and air jet........

thanks,

GN

Haven't read all the posts, but some referred to MPG. Just a note - I'm running 44's on a 2270 and even with hard driving, I'm getting 20mpg on the average. Got 25+ on a 2500 mile road trip. High teens with a heavy foot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[kgruen2]

As you are running a 2270, I know it wouldn't apply - but still would be interested in knowing the sizes of your venturi's, main jet and air jet........

thanks,

GN

Haven't read all the posts, but some referred to MPG. Just a note - I'm running 44's on a 2270 and even with hard driving, I'm getting 20mpg on the average. Got 25+ on a 2500 mile road trip. High teens with a heavy foot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Venturi - 36
Main jet - 155
Idle jet - 55
Air correction jet - 200
Emulsion - F11

Hope this is helpful. Karl

[Gatornapper]

Thanks - wow, large main. Don't know about air correction and emulsion jet.

What in the world is emulsion? Have to read my Weber Tech manual.....

As you are running a 2270, I know it wouldn't apply - but still would be interested in knowing the sizes of your venturi's, main jet and air jet........

thanks,

GN

Haven't read all the posts, but some referred to MPG. Just a note - I'm running 44's on a 2270 and even with hard driving, I'm getting 20mpg on the average. Got 25+ on a 2500 mile road trip. High teens with a heavy foot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Venturi - 36
Main jet - 155
Idle jet - 55
Air correction jet - 200
Emulsion - F11

Hope this is helpful. Karl

[Gatornapper]

Almost 2 1/2 years later........an update........

Engine is running GREAT with lots of mid-range torque with the IDF-44's, but took a long time to get there. Here's what it took:

Venturis: 36mm
Main jets: 135
Idle jets: 60
A/C jets: 175
Emulsion: F11
Pump jets: 50
Pump jet valve: 50 w/no bypass

AND an 050 distributor.

All jets are as Porsche dealer had them, when I got the car, except for idle jets which were 50's, and pump jet valve which had bypass. I could not get a good idle with the 50's.

I tried 32mm venturi's - engine had half the power of the original 36's at all RPM - car would not get out of its own way......was a dog. Totally unacceptable. Don't know why since so many say the 44's need the 32mm venturis - I just could not get them to work. Clearly they are better carb tuners than I am.

My car runs far stronger than I ever dreamed a little 2.0 could. My good friend Rickb45 has a new 2.0 with a cam for carbs and Dellorto 40's - and I've driven it......sure seems to me my car is faster at WOT than his, and my mid-range is fine - as he will attest - as he has driven mine several times. Really want to drag-race the cars to find out - but, as that's illegal, we'll have to find another way. Like time 0 - 60 runs with stopwatch.

So no thoughts of putting the D-jet in - I still can't see how it could provide the power I have now, in spite of the limitations of the cam, etc. I'll keep the D-jet I got from Ken Steele so when I'm gone my family can get more $$ for the car if they decide to sell it.

Me? I'm keeping the car, no plans to ever sell it. Had no idea a well-running 914 was so much fun to drive and would have half the power this little 2.0 has. It will be my go-to car....just hate to be putting all the miles on it....just turned 63k - 2400 miles my doing.....in last year.

Will be moving on to improving suspension in the next year.......as well as a repaint to the original Malaga Red.

Thanks to all here for all the input....

GN

have at it bro. but a statement like you want more power than d-jet is capable of is moronic. you can get more power, less longeivty out of a 2.0l type 4, but d-jet is not the limiting factor. displacement, compression ratios, flow, etc, are. d-jet works for up to 2500cc without cam or ecu mods. so, flow your head, deck your cylinders, do cams, and run 44's. oh, wait, then its not a stock 2.0l type 4, then,is it. no, now you are in raby territory. great engines with the r&d to back up, but at $20k you get what you pay for. whoever told you 44's are a better delivery fuel system is an idiot, ever though they dont work on allot of 914's.

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

44s for racing only

Questions re: Weber 44 IDF carbs:

1. Is anyone running these on a stock engine, and if so, how do they perform? National Carburetors kit for stock engines is 34 ICT's, lightly modified 40 IDF's, and only 44's on heavily modified engines.

2. What problems do you introduce using 44's? other than dumping too much fuel in the engine......

3. Venturi's are 45mm, someone pointed out that one should use 40mm venturi's - is that with a stock engine?

4. Anyone run 44's and then convert back to EFI? How did that go? Labor cost?

TIA,

GN

[Gatornapper]

And that explains it. P.O. raced 911's, bought this for his university professor girlfriend, and thought she'd want to drive it like he would I assume and set it up accordingly.

And yes, I often have a heavy foot. But as I'm getting 25 - 30mpg, not that often. The engine is very happy at 2500 RPM and up.....and very smooth below.....

And I could not be more pleased with how the engine is running and am very happy with it. And other 914'ers who know about it agree.

As always George, thanks for the feedback.

And huge thanks for free testing of my VR's, I owe you postage back - and will be placing an order soon.........

GN

[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='May 8 2020, 09:02 AM' post='2812986']
44s for racing only

[Gatornapper]

Just chatted with the PO......it was no less than Peter Gregg who told him to put the 44's on the stock 2.0.

And yes, the local dealer told him they were too big w/o putting in a cam for carbs.....but he went with Peter Gregg's advice.

So the PO knew Peter Gregg before his death in 1980, obviously. Trying to get more info on that. And while Gregg raced 911's and 914-6's, he surely knew the 2.0's quite well too.

And yes, this matches with what you said George........

GN

[mepstein]

Jake had told me to use 44's if I built up a high performance 2270. He said the 40's I had could be modified but the 44's would be best for a 175+ hp type 4.

[Bleyseng]

All this badmouthing Djet, bah. Its a simple system, runs better than carbs as that's why Porsche used it.
Problems are the FI wiring harness which lays on the hot engine and gets brittle with little shorts in it. Get a new harness.
Problem #2 is the MPS blows out making the car run rich, really rich. New diaphragms are available now and the MPS is easily calibrated to stock.
Problem #3 is the CHT goes out and the engine runs super rich. This is the ONLY failure I have had with Djet since 1998 and it happened in my driveway.
I had 40 Dells on my car when I bought it and 1995 and had soo many problems with them. Keeping them in sync, cold starting was a hassle, etc. Run great at full throttle but who drives around at full throttle?

The stock Djet 2.0L throttle body is 45mm.

[mepstein]

All this badmouthing Djet, bah. Its a simple system, runs better than carbs as that's why Porsche used it.
Problems are the FI wiring harness which lays on the hot engine and gets brittle with little shorts in it. Get a new harness.
Problem #2 is the MPS blows out making the car run rich, really rich. New diaphragms are available now and the MPS is easily calibrated to stock.
Problem #3 is the CHT goes out and the engine runs super rich. This is the ONLY failure I have had with Djet since 1998 and it happened in my driveway.
I had 40 Dells on my car when I bought it and 1995 and had soo many problems with them. Keeping them in sync, cold starting was a hassle, etc. Run great at full throttle but who drives around at full throttle?

The stock Djet 2.0L throttle body is 45mm.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) A stock FI engine is a pleasure to drive.

[Gatornapper]

I have never badmouthed D-jet, and up until recently when I finally got the 44's dialed in, considered it an option once the solid internals of the engine itself was established.

I am good with carbs, and have been doing them for over 50 years, although Weber's are new to me - now I really like them.

Totally understanding the limitations of a cam for FI without the lift or duration needed for carbs, I still can't understand how the air from 4-36mm venturi's can be matched by the air through one 45mm throttle body......but my old memory thought I measured my '76 D-jet system as having a 34mm throttle body.....all packed away nicely now, but I may just unpack it to re-measure it again. I may be wrong. Won't be 1st time, won't be last.

And no question FI is better than carbs overall....hands down. First worked on them in 75 on a '72 Volvo.....loved the system.

One other question: have I heard incorrectly that the ECU's often go bad, and good rebuilt ones are very hard to find? I think even Eric at PMB told me that, and strongly advised me to not put the D-jet in the car.

GN

All this badmouthing Djet, bah. Its a simple system, runs better than carbs as that's why Porsche used it.
Problems are the FI wiring harness which lays on the hot engine and gets brittle with little shorts in it. Get a new harness.
Problem #2 is the MPS blows out making the car run rich, really rich. New diaphragms are available now and the MPS is easily calibrated to stock.
Problem #3 is the CHT goes out and the engine runs super rich. This is the ONLY failure I have had with Djet since 1998 and it happened in my driveway.
I had 40 Dells on my car when I bought it and 1995 and had soo many problems with them. Keeping them in sync, cold starting was a hassle, etc. Run great at full throttle but who drives around at full throttle?

The stock Djet 2.0L throttle body is 45mm.

[thelogo]

Use some common sense
Is your car a daily driver. D in djet stand for daily .
Its the best at that.


Or

Is your car a once a week to a car show driver .
Webbers will be more fun if your driving more
Aggressively/ flat out

[Bleyseng]

ECU's went bad after battery acid dripped all over them over the years or people tossed them in a box out in the yard so rain rusted them out. They are state of the art 1960's electronic aircraft quality.
I have three of them collected over the years- 73 2.0, 74 2.0L and 75-76 2.0L and they all work fine. Sold the others I had to people needing one.

[Gatornapper]

Car is daily driver, not a show car & never will be, but the Weber's are on and working well for my daily driving....and I will admit, I am somewhat heavy-footed in the 914 sometimes - but more than half the time happy with slow easy acceleration - thus my 25 - 30 mpg......

One other thing is - I live in the country, and do little city driving in the 914....and most of the roads around me and to the west are twisty - and I love pushing the car through the turns.......not the usual driving of most folks.......

For me to put my D-jet on would a.) a lot of work; b.) a lot of trouble-shooting as PO of the D-jet said engine was not running well when he pulled it from his '76 and that's why he pulled it; c.) I'm an electrical guy with FI experience so from all the stuff on the web (like rennlist, bowlsby.com, etc.) I think I can probably trouble-shoot it, but my concern is what if the ECU is bad?

Everyone has me so sold on the advantages of the D-jet, I'm willing to try it after doing a lot of other things I want to do on the car - but many have said, "Don't mess with it if the carbs are running well." They are.

Maybe in a year or 2 when other priorities die down, Lord-willing, I'll try the D-jet just to see what it's like......I'm 75 and with this virus every day is a gift, and no tomorrow is guaranteed.......but in one sense, I'd kind of like the challenge of getting the D-jet on and running well.

Then I could decide which I like best....

GN

PS: The ECU I have clearly says it is re-built.......but no one is doing that anymore, right?

Use some common sense
Is your car a daily driver. D in djet stand for daily .
Its the best at that.


Or

Is your car a once a week to a car show driver .
Webbers will be more fun if your driving more
Aggressively/ flat out

[Gatornapper]

Question: is there a place where I can have the ECU tested?

GN

[Bleyseng]

So it's a 75-76 2.0L ECU? A 052?
I'd have a 914 buddy with a 75-76 2.0L install it in their car to test it. If its bad the car will run like crap or not at all but really if its a rebuilt unit it should be good. If IIIRC correctly the rebuild process just ran a series of tests and maybe resoldered some bad connections. If the ECU isn't hung like stock they can bang around and a solder joint could go bad. That's why they were hung off the battery tray so they avoided banging around.

[Gatornapper]

Geoff -

I kind of thought of doing that, but don't know any of the local guys with D-jet very well, not well enough to ask that of them. Don't see any way a bad ECU could hurt their system.

All my local 914 friends are running carbs - or V8's!

So I'll start talking to area 914 owners - I have a great list - and see if any are willing.

Knowing the ECU is good would be strong motivation for me to try the D-jet - testing the other components isn't that hard, and I'd send the injectors to Dr. Injector, and get a new harness from Jeff for sure.

AH! What about the distributor! I'd need a dizzy with the connector for the D-jet too - how hard are they to locate? and what is the Bosche number for them?

Thanks,

GN

So it's a 75-76 2.0L ECU? A 052?
I'd have a 914 buddy with a 75-76 2.0L install it in their car to test it. If its bad the car will run like crap or not at all but really if its a rebuilt unit it should be good. If IIIRC correctly the rebuild process just ran a series of tests and maybe resoldered some bad connections. If the ECU isn't hung like stock they can bang around and a solder joint could go bad. That's why they were hung off the battery tray so they avoided banging around.

[Gatornapper]

As I said, PO knew Peter Gregg - pretty well in fact. PO raced both 914's and 911's, and his first instructor was Peter Gregg, who, as all know, did the same and was one of the best. PO met with Greg fairly frequently over 4 or 5 years.

Peter Gregg told him to run 44's on a stock 914 that was a street car and this was the PO's 2nd one with them that he did not race, but used as street car.

GN

Just chatted with the PO......it was no less than Peter Gregg who told him to put the 44's on the stock 2.0.

And yes, the local dealer told him they were too big w/o putting in a cam for carbs.....but he went with Peter Gregg's advice.

So the PO knew Peter Gregg before his death in 1980, obviously. Trying to get more info on that. And while Gregg raced 911's and 914-6's, he surely knew the 2.0's quite well too.

And yes, this matches with what you said George........

GN