123 Distributor Group Buy Thread, Replacement for NLA stock Dizzy's-Order 15 % Discount Options

[pete000]

I also installed new Blue Bosch coil, new plugs, Clewett wires and cleaned up the wiring to make it tidy. One thing that is annoying is that the location of #1 on the dizzy cap is about 180 degrees from stock. Because of the change in locations, some of the plug wires are a tough fit, and I couldn't get #2 to fit at all. So I had to use an older, longer wire I had. The Clewett ones don't give you any excess to play with. I know you can flip the drive gear on the dizzy, but...not sure I want to futz with that right now.

I'm running Clewett wires and this is disturbing news, why is the 123 distributor 180 degrees opposite of OEM?

[914_teener]

My No 1 terminal was exactly in the same position as the stock dizzy. I had no such issue.

[pete000]

My No 1 terminal was exactly in the same position as the stock dizzy. I had no such issue.

Oh that's good news. I haven't had time to get mine installed yet.

[McMark]

One thing that is annoying is that the location of #1 on the dizzy cap is about 180 degrees from stock.

You can reclock the drive gear under the distributor. It's not hard, and you don't need to pull it out completely (so no washer worries). With a tappet-puller it'd take you about 30s to turn the drive 180, which would change your TDC#1 location, which would reorient all your spark plug wires.

This post will show you what you're dealing with to reclock.
(Ye gods! That post is from nearly 14 years ago! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif))

[BeatNavy]

You can reclock the drive gear under the distributor. It's not hard, and you don't need to pull it out completely (so no washer worries). With a tappet-puller it'd take you about 30s to turn the drive 180, which would change your TDC#1 location, which would reorient all your spark plug wires.

This post will show you what you're dealing with to reclock.
(Ye gods! That post is from nearly 14 years ago! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif))

Cool, thanks Mark. Then that is what I think I will do. I'm not so OCD as to have to have the #1 in the right position, but I am sufficiently OCD to want all my plug wires to match and be good quality (after spending money on them) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[pete000]

From the factory tech spec booklet...

[SKL1]

Mine is on the way. I have a 2.0 with Webcam and Webers, so got the one with 16 maps and no vacuum. Will have to figure out which map I like the best...

[914_teener]

From the factory tech spec booklet...

Just wanted to point out that these plots use the VW numbers and not the Bosch part numbers for which the 123 installation manual uses.

You need to figure out what the cross references plots are if you have a stock config.

[nditiz1]

Can someone tell me where the stock position of #1 is? Since I'll have the motor out might as well make sure the gear is oriented properly. Thanks!

[McMark]

Can someone tell me where the stock position of #1 is? Since I'll have the motor out might as well make sure the gear is oriented properly. Thanks!

My link above has the stock position when the engine is at TDC#1. It's ~12° off-center.
This post will show you what you're dealing with to reclock (and what stock looks like).

[BeatNavy]

If Mark's picture doesn't make it 100% clear I made (or found online, can't remember which) the following for myself for reference a few years ago:

[nditiz1]

Thanks Mark and Rob.

Now I know my gear is already oriented correctly. The Mallory I did have in there was 180 off.

[McMark]

The Mallory I did have in there was 180 off.

This reply is mostly irrelevant, but to be specific. The drive gear only has a 'correct' orientation in regards to the stock distributor, stock distributor orientation (where the vac can is), and having the rotor 'point at the line'.

When you change any of the stock components out, the idea of a 'correct' orientation breaks down. The following are all true -- as long as correct ignition timing can be physically achieved and the firing order is maintained.
-The drive gear can be installed in any orientation and work just fine.
-The rotor can point any direction and work just fine.
-The distributor body can be oriented in any way and work just fine.
-The spark plug wires can be oriented in any way and work just fine.

So you can't just put anything anywhere and have it work. BUT you are allowed a HUGE degree of freedom. So the Mallory is not '180 degrees off', which would imply that it's installed or manufactured improperly. The Mallory is just different. The 009 is different. The 123 is different. But orientation is just completely irrelevant, as long as correct ignition timing can be physically achieved and the firing order is maintained.

The bottom line is this:
If you're installing a 100% stock system, take the time to make sure all the components are aligned as per the manual. But if you've swapped out any components, don't get too focused on orientation vs. stock, and be willing to change the orientation.

[nditiz1]

The Mallory I did have in there was 180 off.

This reply is mostly irrelevant, but to be specific. The drive gear only has a 'correct' orientation in regards to the stock distributor, stock distributor orientation (where the vac can is), and having the rotor 'point at the line'.

When you change any of the stock components out, the idea of a 'correct' orientation breaks down. The following are all true -- as long as correct ignition timing can be physically achieved and the firing order is maintained.
-The drive gear can be installed in any orientation and work just fine.
-The rotor can point any direction and work just fine.
-The distributor body can be oriented in any way and work just fine.
-The spark plug wires can be oriented in any way and work just fine.

So you can't just put anything anywhere and have it work. BUT you are allowed a HUGE degree of freedom. So the Mallory is not '180 degrees off', which would imply that it's installed or manufactured improperly. The Mallory is just different. The 009 is different. The 123 is different. But orientation is just completely irrelevant, as long as correct ignition timing can be physically achieved and the firing order is maintained.

The bottom line is this:
If you're installing a 100% stock system, take the time to make sure all the components are aligned as per the manual. But if you've swapped out any components, don't get too focused on orientation vs. stock, and be willing to change the orientation.

This makes total sense. Thanks.

[mgphoto]

The 123 allows you to orient the wiring and curve plug access to a direction you prefer. Can't do that with a stock dizzy as the vacuum can takes up a lot of space.
As long as the rotor points to the #1 position, you can rotate the body of the 123 to position the cap spark plug connector to the #1 wire in the stock position.

This can make the wire installation a bit more tidy.

[Morrie]

The 123 allows you to orient the wiring and curve plug access to a direction you prefer. Can't do that with a stock dizzy as the vacuum can takes up a lot of space.
As long as the rotor points to the #1 position, you can rotate the body of the 123 to position the cap spark plug connector to the #1 wire in the stock position.

This can make the wire installation a bit more tidy.

Hmmm... I agree you can position the body in 90 degree increments however you choose, but the rotor position to fire on a given cylinder doesn't change. The only way to move this is to index the drive gear in the case....

Or maybe I am thinking wrong??

[McMark]

The 123 allows you to orient the wiring and curve plug access to a direction you prefer. Can't do that with a stock dizzy as the vacuum can takes up a lot of space.
As long as the rotor points to the #1 position, you can rotate the body of the 123 to position the cap spark plug connector to the #1 wire in the stock position.

This can make the wire installation a bit more tidy.

Hmmm... I agree you can position the body in 90 degree increments however you choose, but the rotor position to fire on a given cylinder doesn't change. The only way to move this is to index the drive gear in the case....

Or maybe I am thinking wrong??

No, you're right, within the bounds of the wire connections on the cap must line up with the rotor. But you're exactly right, in order to make small adjustments in orientation, you must move the drive gear.

[123ignitionusa]

So when the green led just lights up, which is four times in a revolution or turn of the distributor body, you actually have four positions where the firing of the number one cylinder will take place. When you attach the wires to the cap they will also need to move their location to correspond with the change of the distributor body. The reason is the cap has a locating tab on it so it goes onto the body only one way.

Now if you change the gear orientation thats ok but the above applies to that as well. Which should equate to (8) different locations for the distributor body to be adjusted too. However #1 cylinder and the rotor location does not change in each situation unless the drive dog is rotated 180 degrees.

Clear as mud? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[McMark]

Now if you change the gear orientation thats ok but the above applies to that as well. Which should equate to (8) different locations for the distributor body to be adjusted too. However #1 cylinder and the rotor location does not change in each situation unless the drive dog is rotated 180 degrees.

Clear as mud? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I think by 'drive dog' you're talking about the toothed portion installed on the end of the distributor with a pin and spring. Nobody should be fiddling with that piece.

The drive gear (separate from the distributor) has 12 different positions. Any of those 12 positions will function the same. In any of those 12 positions there are four different orientations for the spark plug wires (assuming there are no physical limitations from clips of vac-cans). So there are a total of 48 different positions where your #1 spark plug wire could be. Which means that with some planning and/or math you can adjust your #1 position anywhere in the 360° rotation in increments/steps of 7.5 degrees.

[DRPHIL914]

how long before mine ships?