Newbie / question about bolt-on aluminum 914 / Type 4 valve covers |
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Newbie / question about bolt-on aluminum 914 / Type 4 valve covers |
Chunkstyle |
Dec 28 2017, 01:21 PM
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#1
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 1 Joined: 28-December 17 From: Rockford, Michigan Member No.: 21,735 Region Association: None |
Hi guys!
New member here. I live in western Michigan, and am in the process of slowly rebuilding a 1.8 914/4 engine for use in a Sterling kit car someday. I just got a used set of type 4 bolt-on valve covers, for the engine. They came without hardware, and I was wondering if any of you could please tell me which hardware kit I need to get for these -- it looks like Empi has a few different versions available, and I'm not sure which one is correct for these covers, or if the T1 & T4 bolt-on covers share the same hardware. Here's a pic: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/vgy.me-21735-1514488871.1.jpg) I had originally planned on just buying some metric coupling nuts, bols & o-rings from a hardware store & cutting the nuts to the necessary length, but was surprised to find that the rocker shaft studs in the heads I've got seem to be M7x1.0, which is an oddball size that's not available in my area. Even McMaster-Carr doesn't carry much in M7 fasteners. So it looks like I've got to buy one of the kits. I was surprised that the studs were that small -- I expected at least an M8 for rocker studs. They seem like a pretty high-stress and important fastener, that you wouldn't want to fail. And just out of curiosity -- I assume that the coupling-type nuts in the kits replace the stock rocker shaft nuts & do double duty in anchoring the arms & providing threads for the cover bolts. Is that correct? If so, are the original stock nuts some type of high-strength steel, and are the nuts in the kits of comparable strength? I ask because I've never seen a high-strength coupling nut -- they always appear to me to be around Grade 2 or the metric equivalent. Do the kit nuts have a different thread size in each end, or are the covers actually held on by little M7 bolts? Also -- I've seen these particular covers sometimes referred to as "Mr. Bug/Empi" covers. Was Mr. Bug some company that originally made them that later got bought out by Empi? Or always paart of Empi? Just curious. Thank you for any advice or info anyone can offer. And Happy New Year! Thank you! Drew J. |
JawjaPorsche |
Dec 28 2017, 02:11 PM
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#2
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,463 Joined: 23-July 11 From: Clayton, Georgia Member No.: 13,351 Region Association: South East States |
I have heard nothing good about the covers from previous postings. They leak. Maybe someone else can support this claim.
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98101 |
Dec 28 2017, 02:24 PM
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#3
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Michael in Seattle Group: Members Posts: 373 Joined: 7-October 17 From: Seattle, WA Member No.: 21,495 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
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bretth |
Dec 28 2017, 02:45 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 899 Joined: 23-June 15 From: Central TX Member No.: 18,882 Region Association: Southwest Region |
From what I have heard. They end up pulling the rocker mount studs out of the head. Too much torque needed and so the threads strip eventually.
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johnhora |
Dec 28 2017, 02:50 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 866 Joined: 7-January 03 From: Derby City KY Member No.: 107 Region Association: None |
Tried that type of vc many years ago and they always seemd to leak...no matter what I did to remedy the problem. It was the seal around the stud manily...
Always went back to the stock steel ones with the stock bales. Good gaskets were the most important thing for not leaking. This was on autox and race type 4 engines. Also I always thought that the two valve train studs didn't need anymore pressure on them by holding down the valve cover... And these things were heavier than the stock ones anyway....all weight creates a problem for a race car. Just my 2c on the subject (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
Olympic 914 |
Dec 28 2017, 03:28 PM
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#6
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Group: Members Posts: 1,670 Joined: 7-July 11 From: Pittsburgh PA Member No.: 13,287 Region Association: North East States |
Tried that type of vc many years ago and they always seemd to leak...no matter what I did to remedy the problem. It was the seal around the stud manily... Always went back to the stock steel ones with the stock bales. Good gaskets were the most important thing for not leaking. This was on autox and race type 4 engines. Also I always thought that the two valve train studs didn't need anymore pressure on them by holding down the valve cover... And these things were heavier than the stock ones anyway....all weight creates a problem for a race car. Just my 2c on the subject (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) And I can guarantee you don't want to have to deal with a problem like this one someday... the engine has to come out to fix it. and to do it right you should pull the head. Although this broken stud had another cause, the fix would be just as troublesome. and I consider myself lucky that the threads were still good. if the stud pulled out and took the threads with it the problem could be worse. I think the aluminum covers look cool but use the stock ones with the bail. |
98101 |
Dec 28 2017, 11:23 PM
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#7
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Michael in Seattle Group: Members Posts: 373 Joined: 7-October 17 From: Seattle, WA Member No.: 21,495 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
My new-to-me car came with the bolt ons and I was excited that I wouldn't have to scrape my knuckles on those bales again! Maybe I never had the technique down, or probably I'm just uncoordinated.
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wes |
Dec 29 2017, 12:07 AM
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#8
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wes Group: Members Posts: 1,588 Joined: 8-December 07 From: Ukiah Ca Member No.: 8,436 Region Association: Northern California |
I looked at them but heard nothing but leek problems so dropped the idea.
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Mikey914 |
Dec 29 2017, 12:35 AM
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#9
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The rubber man Group: Members Posts: 12,669 Joined: 27-December 04 From: Hillsboro, OR Member No.: 3,348 Region Association: None |
They were supposed to be an improvement, helping to cool the oil. Upside is questionable, when in doubt go OEM, it works.
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vw_porsche |
Dec 29 2017, 08:00 AM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 2-June 13 From: Milton, Fl. Member No.: 15,954 Region Association: South East States |
I've seen many of these type of vc on vw beetle engines. They all leaked.
Replaced with stock vc and sealed up fine. Plus, like others have said, they can break off your rocker studs. My opinion is, stay with stock. I'm sure if the engineers could've done it better, they would have. |
rgalla9146 |
Dec 29 2017, 09:36 AM
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#11
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,554 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Paramus NJ Member No.: 5,176 Region Association: None |
I've only handled those covers once.
I found that if placed on the head with no gasket and no hardware the cover did not sit flush.....it rocked. A bad thing. If you can't live without them make a visit to a machinist first. |
Mark Henry |
Dec 29 2017, 09:45 AM
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#12
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
I have nothing good to say about them.
The stock cover/bail moves with the expansion and contraction of the engine/head. |
rjames |
Dec 29 2017, 12:15 PM
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#13
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I'm made of metal Group: Members Posts: 3,933 Joined: 24-July 05 From: Shoreline, WA Member No.: 4,467 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
An attempt to provide a solution where no problem exists.
Stock valve covers if installed right don't leak. Why deviate? |
Porschef |
Dec 29 2017, 01:28 PM
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#14
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How you doin' Group: Members Posts: 2,165 Joined: 7-September 10 From: LawnGuyland Member No.: 12,152 Region Association: North East States |
Apparently there's a dude pretty darn close to you that knows a couple things about 914's... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
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pete000 |
Dec 29 2017, 03:17 PM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,885 Joined: 23-August 10 From: Bradenton Florida Member No.: 12,094 Region Association: South East States |
IMHO the stock spring clip covers are the best. They provide good even pressure via the spring clip. No chance of under or over tightening. Many try the bolt on ones because they look cool, but end up coming back to the good old stock VW system in the end.
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914Sixer |
Dec 29 2017, 05:45 PM
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#16
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,882 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Get a set of 914Rubber improved valve cover seals and put the stock covers back on. Life is GOOD! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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