Turbo 914 (1.8 type-4), Turbocharging my 1.8 type-4 for a school project... can anyone give me some advice? Options

[holtby914]

Member ejm on here built a 1.8 liter turbo four as well. IIRC, he used the turbo off a VW 1.8T, likely for the same reasons McMark did. He also ran CIS from (I think) an Audi 5-cylinder motor, using the 5th line for extra enrichment?

Member Evill Ed built a 1.7 turbo quite a long time ago. When the 1.7 started having problems I believe he bumped it up to a 1911cc. I don't remember the engine management, but he did have water/methanol injection to help with temps.

Another member here owns that car, and may have made improvements since.

Good ol' SammyG from Pelican built a 2.0 turbo. He used a draw-through carb setup. He admitted it wasn't optimal, but it did work. I think I remember that the car and engine were sold separately, and the turbo setup didn't go with either.


Finally: "Everybody knows you can't turbocharge a 914!" That is a quote from an old "european car" issue, which was widely derided at the time by those of us who had seen (or a few who had built!) the above cars. It's become a catch-phrase in many on-line 914 circles.

--DD

Thanks for the advice. I know you can't turbo a 914, and that is exactly why I'm going to do it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mepstein]

I have done a low boost turbo set up before. I did this 100% by myself with lots of research on a -6 3.0.. I ran 6 psi of boost using a 3.2 intake and megasquirt.. I was not a megasquirt expert but it worked fantastic for me.. I did blow that engine up when the wastegate signal line melted as it was too close to the exhaust. I then built a 3.2 short stroke out of it and went with a divided housing turbo and dual wastegates and bumped it to 9 psi with 8:1 compression ratio.. It was extremely reliable but the learning curve was expensive.. The type 4 project will be fun for you and for us to read about.. Enjoy the process but be prepared for set backs.

And just because I can I will share my 3.2 ss picture you will notice a few things changed along the way with exhaust and the intercooler..

Ben - when are we building a 914-6GT 3.2 turbo? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[holtby914]

Kinda confused why you would do a aircooled turbo

Instead of watercooled

Or turbo diesal


The car with the audi turbo is really cool

As would a ecotech (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

Simple... because of its cool and unique. Sure anyone can swap a different modern engine into there car with a turbo. But there is a lot less actually engineering that goes into that, as it has been done lots before. But it is not enough to make a project out of it, or one that would be approved by my professors. A flat 4 boxer has a very low C.G. and is perfect for the driving characteristics of a 914. Later on, in life, i plan on building 2 more 914's (probably many more), one that is AWD and has a Subaru STI drivetrain, and one with a SBC, with a blower that pokes out over the roof.

[holtby914]

I bet many people told you, that what you were doing was crazy, but that didn't seem to stop you either (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You completely misunderstand. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't. I'm saying the chassis is more important, and the bottom line of what I'm saying is that you should focus on that exclusively first. But you're FULLY capable of doing a turbo build. It's not rocket science. I'll gladly help. I'll share everything I know. But I've seen a lot of newbies come through here with grand ideas, only to get burned out, stalled, and give up.

If you wanna jump on it all right outta the gate, lets do it. What do you want to know?

I used a K03 turbo off of a 1.8VW/AUDI engine for my engine. I built a custom exhaust header using prebent piping from Summit Racing. I chose to put the turbo up high to allow for gravity oil drain and that worked fine for me. It also kept plumbing to a minimum. I'm running about 7lbs of boost and because of the small turbo there's no noticeable turbo lag. It's just always there. During testing and fiddling with the turbo settings I saw boost as high as 1bar. Didn't blow anything up right away.

You're going to be dealing with heat if you're trying to make big power from a small engine using a turbo. And unlike water-cooled cars, there's not much you can do that isn't fantastically expensive. So you have to give up some potential (in my opinion) to play it safe.

I think fuel injection is necessary for a well built turbo engine. Carbs can be run, and people have done it successfully, but it's always a bit of a hack.

So what else do you wanna know?

Here are the drawings i made:


Very simple, most of my class had no idea what a turbo system even was so i didnt go into crazy detail.

[Mueller]

I know it says radiator in the subject, however there are a few pictures of that you might use for intercooler location

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=246373

[Dave_Darling]

... i plan on building 2 more 914's (probably many more), one that is AWD and has a Subaru STI drivetrain...

It will be very challenging to route the driveshaft forward to the front wheels--the engine will be in the way! I know that some mid-engine AWD cars run the driveshaft through the crankcase, and others that have transverse engines and transmissions just go forward from the trans case because that is to one side of the engine crankcase.

Either one would be tough to do with a Scooby drivetrain.

--DD

[holtby914]

... i plan on building 2 more 914's (probably many more), one that is AWD and has a Subaru STI drivetrain...

It will be very challenging to route the driveshaft forward to the front wheels--the engine will be in the way! I know that some mid-engine AWD cars run the driveshaft through the crankcase, and others that have transverse engines and transmissions just go forward from the trans case because that is to one side of the engine crankcase.

Either one would be tough to do with a Scooby drivetrain.

--DD

This is a dream of mine, it will be a long time before i even think about how to make it work.

[burton73]

Something to think about: Because of the expansion and contraction of the exhaust manifold you have designed I think you should put in some Stainless Steel bellows so the manifold does not crack.

My 2-liter with turbo at 7 lbs. of boost made a lot of power and the exhaust glowed red after hard running. This was back in 79 or 1980 or so.

I had hydraulic valve lifters in the car and the only thing wrong with my engine was the parts supplier did not sell me harden lifters. Every few hundred miles the vales would get out of adjustment and when I pulled down my engine the lifters looked like mushrooms.

Bob B

[mepstein]

... i plan on building 2 more 914's (probably many more), one that is AWD and has a Subaru STI drivetrain...

It will be very challenging to route the driveshaft forward to the front wheels--the engine will be in the way! I know that some mid-engine AWD cars run the driveshaft through the crankcase, and others that have transverse engines and transmissions just go forward from the trans case because that is to one side of the engine crankcase.

Either one would be tough to do with a Scooby drivetrain.

--DD

So by engine in the back, electric motor in the front.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/...mpaign=GRMDaily

[holtby914]

Something to think about: Because of the expansion and contraction of the exhaust manifold you have designed I think you should put in some Stainless Steel bellows so the manifold does not crack.

My 2-liter with turbo at 7 lbs. of boost made a lot of power and the exhaust glowed red after hard running. This was back in 79 or 1980 or so.

I had hydraulic valve lifters in the car and the only thing wrong with my engine was the parts supplier did not sell me harden lifters. Every few hundred miles the vales would get out of adjustment and when I pulled down my engine the lifters looked like mushrooms.

Bob B

That design isnt to be taken to seriously... it was a group project, not everything was my idea. Thanks for the advice.

[holtby914]

... i plan on building 2 more 914's (probably many more), one that is AWD and has a Subaru STI drivetrain...

It will be very challenging to route the driveshaft forward to the front wheels--the engine will be in the way! I know that some mid-engine AWD cars run the driveshaft through the crankcase, and others that have transverse engines and transmissions just go forward from the trans case because that is to one side of the engine crankcase.

Either one would be tough to do with a Scooby drivetrain.

--DD

So by engine in the back, electric motor in the front.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/...mpaign=GRMDaily

Never ever will i be driving an electric vehicle. I like to keep things old school (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[mepstein]

... i plan on building 2 more 914's (probably many more), one that is AWD and has a Subaru STI drivetrain...

It will be very challenging to route the driveshaft forward to the front wheels--the engine will be in the way! I know that some mid-engine AWD cars run the driveshaft through the crankcase, and others that have transverse engines and transmissions just go forward from the trans case because that is to one side of the engine crankcase.

Either one would be tough to do with a Scooby drivetrain.

--DD

So by engine in the back, electric motor in the front.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/...mpaign=GRMDaily

Never ever will i be driving an electric vehicle. I like to keep things old school (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Old school 1900 - 1905

[thelogo]

Kinda confused why you would do a aircooled turbo

Instead of watercooled

Or turbo diesal


The car with the audi turbo is really cool

As would a ecotech (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

Simple... because of its cool and unique. Sure anyone can swap a different modern engine into there car with a turbo. But there is a lot less actually engineering that goes into that, as it has been done lots before. But it is not enough to make a project out of it, or one that would be approved by my professors. A flat 4 boxer has a very low C.G. and is perfect for the driving characteristics of a 914. Later on, in life, i plan on building 2 more 914's (probably many more), one that is AWD and has a Subaru STI drivetrain, and one with a SBC, with a blower that pokes out over the roof.

Simple is good but

But not really huge complexity in a boosted type 4

I would think something like this is more in your wheelhouse
Think you could make this work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Jumo_205

[thelogo]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[worn]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

What da ‘ell is that? I mean it looks cool but I avent a clue.

[thelogo]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

What da ‘ell is that? I mean it looks cool but I avent a clue.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Jumo_205


That would be the ole opposed piston engine


Gotta love those germans

[holtby914]

Here is how the car looked in the fall:

[holtby914]

taking apart spare engine: I learn what not to do taking apart type-4 many time while taking apart this engine.

[holtby914]

the cinder block wasn't ideal:

[holtby914]

Rods and crank are in good shape... rest of the engine won't be of any use.