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> Options to get Wider Track, crazy stupid 914 hack car
nimblemotorsports
post Jan 13 2018, 01:54 AM
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Hello, new guy here, I just picked up a donated 914 that is barely a roller, and will be used with a kitcar body and some offbrand junkyard motor/transaxle setup, for a super cheap road racer. To get this to look right, I need to use modern high negative offset wheels AND I need to widen the track width by 6 inches.

I know there are a lot of 'flared fender' 914s, this is probably a little wider than those, but can I just use 3 inch spacers to get the wider track? Seems a bit questionable for an actual road raced car. Not that I can afford good 3 inch spacers anyway.

Here is one that looks wide enough, not sure what suspension is in this v8 car.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/patrickms.s3.amazonaws.com-21793-1515830549.1.jpg)

I am thinking I should just go ahead and replace entirely the front and rear suspensions with ones that have the right width. I actually have a couple Volvo v70 fwd suspensions that are just the right width and can put them in front and back with all the necessary tubing welding, etc, etc.

Is there a simpler good cheap way. I need all three...simple, cheap, good.

This isn't the body kit i'm using, but to give an idea why I need wider track.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-21793-1515830078.1.jpg)
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nimblemotorsports
post Jan 13 2018, 02:12 AM
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So I just looked into the green one, and it seems to use the stockish rear suspension, but just has huge positive offset wheels. Now correct me if I am wrong, but this has the same loading as big wheel spacers and negative offset wheels, i.e. the wheels still have a big leverage on the bearings and suspension arms.

What I came up with/wonder is if I can relocate the swing arm location on the pivot bar to move it outwards? Shock mount would also have to move outward too.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/patrickms.s3.amazonaws.com-21793-1515831163.1.jpg)

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tygaboy
post Jan 13 2018, 08:11 AM
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Problem with using the stock trailing arms is you're limited to how much back spacing the wheel can have as it'll rub the trailing arm.
IMO, if you're "going crazy" with rear tire width and want to do it right, go with an a-arm set up. A couple folks here have grafted late model 911 suspension onto their chassis. Not for the faint of heart... but epic coolness rarely is!

If I was going that way, I'd look into an unequal length a-arm set up. C5 Corvette, something like that. BTW, I have an entire C5 rear suspension, including the rear section of the frame rails (makes it easy to build a jig to replicate the geometry).

You're is Sac. I'm in Petaluma. If you're interested, feel free to come by. You can poke around my LS build and take a look at the Corvette stuff. Seeing things in person always helps me when I'm thinking through stuff like this.

Either way, best of luck with your build.

Chris
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r_towle
post Jan 13 2018, 08:57 AM
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Tube chassis and unequal a arms
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jd74914
post Jan 13 2018, 09:06 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) You're better off going unequal double wishbone on something you want to use really high offset wheels. This is something of an issue for people who want to keep some of their 914 intact (I considered it with my suspension mods but wanted to save my trunks), but if that's not a big deal it'd be much easier. Some strut cars have spindles really easy to convert to wishbone style uprights (think Miata like the Locost guys). Lots of work though and never especially cheap!
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GeorgeRud
post Jan 13 2018, 10:43 AM
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Far from cheap no matter which way you go. I’d think wide wheels with the proper offset would be the easiest way to go. However, what are you going to be powering those wheels with? A stock 4 cylinder doesn’t need any wider tires. I think you have choices on the width of Sheridan Bodies, so perhaps a more conservative setup may work better for you.

Enjoy your project!
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nimblemotorsports
post Jan 13 2018, 11:10 AM
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I'd be thrilled to use a C5 setup and no problem to drive to petaluma, I consider easy work to drive a long way to get stuff cheap.

The racing organization doesn't allow tube-frame cars, I already asked, so my kitcar body must be on an existing car, and of course, pre-1976, mid-engine, so 914 was my choice donor car.
This car should have about 500 hp.

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jan 13 2018, 06:11 AM) *

Problem with using the stock trailing arms is you're limited to how much back spacing the wheel can have as it'll rub the trailing arm.
IMO, if you're "going crazy" with rear tire width and want to do it right, go with an a-arm set up. A couple folks here have grafted late model 911 suspension onto their chassis. Not for the faint of heart... but epic coolness rarely is!

If I was going that way, I'd look into an unequal length a-arm set up. C5 Corvette, something like that. BTW, I have an entire C5 rear suspension, including the rear section of the frame rails (makes it easy to build a jig to replicate the geometry).

You're is Sac. I'm in Petaluma. If you're interested, feel free to come by. You can poke around my LS build and take a look at the Corvette stuff. Seeing things in person always helps me when I'm thinking through stuff like this.

Either way, best of luck with your build.

Chris

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Mueller
post Jan 13 2018, 11:36 AM
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Subframe assemblies as mentioned above.

Corvette or Porsche. These could be installed if you get creative without doing a true tube frame vehicle.

Porsche: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=142936

For Corvette, just do google image search using "Corvette subframe unibody"

'Vette might be cheaper and will be easier/cheaper for wheels and such.
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Mueller
post Jan 13 2018, 11:43 AM
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Thread showing 996 rear subframe in a 914. You can see how with some tubing it can be installed.

If you did it just right using perhaps rectangle tubing it might look more "stock' than using round tubing for the attachment pieces.
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tygaboy
post Jan 13 2018, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE(nimblemotorsports @ Jan 13 2018, 09:10 AM) *

I'd be thrilled to use a C5 setup and no problem to drive to petaluma, I consider easy work to drive a long way to get stuff cheap.

The racing organization doesn't allow tube-frame cars, I already asked, so my kitcar body must be on an existing car, and of course, pre-1976, mid-engine, so 914 was my choice donor car.
This car should have about 500 hp.

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jan 13 2018, 06:11 AM) *

Problem with using the stock trailing arms is you're limited to how much back spacing the wheel can have as it'll rub the trailing arm.
IMO, if you're "going crazy" with rear tire width and want to do it right, go with an a-arm set up. A couple folks here have grafted late model 911 suspension onto their chassis. Not for the faint of heart... but epic coolness rarely is!

If I was going that way, I'd look into an unequal length a-arm set up. C5 Corvette, something like that. BTW, I have an entire C5 rear suspension, including the rear section of the frame rails (makes it easy to build a jig to replicate the geometry).

You're is Sac. I'm in Petaluma. If you're interested, feel free to come by. You can poke around my LS build and take a look at the Corvette stuff. Seeing things in person always helps me when I'm thinking through stuff like this.

Either way, best of luck with your build.

Chris




PM sent - give me a call if you'd like to meet up.
Chris
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ConeDodger
post Jan 14 2018, 07:16 AM
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Ron Kain at IPB Autosport on C Street downtown Sacramento had a 914 race car just about like that. He partnered with Bob Peake IIRC. There are pics of that car on here somewhere.
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ablesnead
post Jan 14 2018, 10:11 AM
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Lets see ...super cheap road racer with modified drive train , junkyard motor with 500 horsepower.....I see an oxymoron in there somewhere ,,,
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PanelBilly
post Jan 14 2018, 10:12 AM
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So what class would you be Ravi g this car in?
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nimblemotorsports
post Jan 14 2018, 11:03 AM
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Looking closer at the 914 rear suspension, I am thinking I can splice in an extension tubing in the swingarm to move out the wheel mounting. I really like how simple it is.
I just know if I fabbed up something that was the same people say it would never work, but HA! porsche did it, and they race these 914 right?

I also had a Boxster I converted to an EV, and it has a very complicated rear setup, I'm surprised someone when to all the trouble to swap it into a 914, some real talent there.

Studying the C5 pics, it looks like it may be too complicated also.

I'm also building a mid-engine Audi V8 Corvair using a 944 suspension, and I have another 944 suspension and thought of putting it in the 914, but I think that is going into my Pinto. The 914 setup leaves a lot of room inside.

Have attached pics of all the 914 you get for $200... lol


QUOTE(ablesnead @ Jan 14 2018, 08:11 AM) *

Lets see ...super cheap road racer with modified drive train , junkyard motor with 500 horsepower.....I see an oxymoron in there somewhere ,,,


Not an oxymoron, just a moron! lol But with turbos big HP is cheap.

I may start with just 100 or 200 hp, but need to plan for the bigger engine.Attached Image
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Blue6
post Jan 14 2018, 11:21 AM
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"Super cheap road racer" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)
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ablesnead
post Jan 14 2018, 03:55 PM
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No tubo motor is even remotely cheap...they have to be expensively controlled , or they are short fused grenades on a track.....But I can see that this is meaningless to a corvair / pinto aficionado ....smells Trollish honestly
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Mueller
post Jan 14 2018, 04:07 PM
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----
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Mark Henry
post Jan 14 2018, 06:02 PM
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I'm confused.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

Is the purple one your car?
Those are GT flares, use the stock suspension. maybe beef it up a bit for higher HP.
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Mueller
post Jan 14 2018, 06:17 PM
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Green car in your 1st post has stock width suspension.

No reason to widen track. I question entire post now reading it again. Volvo FWD suspension? How did I miss that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/project/...onster/#image_2
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jcd914
post Jan 14 2018, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Jan 14 2018, 05:16 AM) *

Ron Kain at IPB Autosport on C Street downtown Sacramento had a 914 race car just about like that. He partnered with Bob Peake IIRC. There are pics of that car on here somewhere.


I helped Ron and Bob prep and race it and it has 914 rear suspension on it.
Lots of custom work but the suspension is based on 914 suspension.

You don't need to transplant another suspension in for the flares on the purple car.

I thought this car was sold a few years ago but it is listed on Craigslist in Sacramento.
Ron/Bob Racecar craigslist

Jim
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