Fuel injecting a larger displacement Type IV, fuel flow is easy what about air? Options

[DNHunt]

Any FI gurus out there.

If I build a larger Type IV would it be possible to adapt the stock 2.0L intake to supply air. Tuning induction is kind of a mystery to me and I need some info. I understand that runner length and diameter and plenum volume are all important. Also engine displacement and cam duration and target RPM are important.

So, for the fun of it. Is it possible to use 2.0L intake on a 2270 with a Web Cam 163/86b. Target RPM 5000.

Doing a little dreaming here, hope to learn something too.

Dave

[JeffBowlsby]

Brad Anders and others seem to be confident that the stock 2.0 induction (D-Jet) is good for engines up to about 2.3 or 2.4L, properly tuned.

The TB can be enlarged to 50mm (nearly 25%) if needed, and possibly the runners, but I would play with the stock components as they are to see if a correct A/F mix can be acheived before modifying anything.

[airsix]

Hi Dave,
I increased my plenum volume by about 5% and replaced the TB with one of 48mm bore size. This is on the 1.7 I am turbo-ing. Results were interesting. I didn't expect any noticeable change (still running NA right now), but after making the change it was running lean at WOT. That surprised me - I didn't expect it to flow more air, but it obviously does.

These mods were more of a means to an end rather than done for their own sake. The plemum volume increase was a planned result of chopping/splicing/welding to mount the TB verticle to facilitate the turbo plumbing, and the larger TB was the result of converting to a o-ringed unit better suited to the turbo install.

-Ben M.

[DNHunt]

I'm just starting to get into this. It was interesting to me that even though I enlarged my throttle body to 50mm it appears I didn't flow any more air as my power curve on my dyno pulls falls off about the same as the published results for stock motors. It would seem to me that restrictions are elsewhere. Geoff says its the heads and I've also heard it's the cam. I certainly have no reason not to believe them.

Does anyone know if the intake was really tuned or was it more of a compromise to fit in the engine compartment? When I look at the stock runners it sure looks like they could easily be made longer by including a second bend. Could it be that a second bend would cause more turbulence and therefore offset any gains caused by ram effects? Is the broad power curve at least somewhat from a detuned intake? Could it be that the restrictions in the head at the exhaust port eliminate any gains from the intake?

I'm all questions and no answers, I'd appreciate any info.

Dave

does anyone out there make a ITB setup (Individual Throttle Bodies)? I thought there was one. I am debating when I build up my 2.0, if I should stick with FI or go carbs (which is absolutely foreign to me).


Terrance (IMG:style_emoticons/default/calvin.gif)

[Bleyseng]

CB performance makes a ITB set up but its not very tuneable. The stock runners and set up will work upto a 2.4L (suppling air). Everything I know and have heard is that the cam and heads is where the gains are to be made. The Djet cam is soo mild but that gives it that flat broad torque curve which is good. Add a higher lift cam will move the powerband up away from 2500-4500rpms so what is your objective?? Better springs will help with the revs, porting the heads will help the flow too. I used 38mm exhaust valves to help the exhaust flow.

Too radical of a cam and the car will not be too friendly in the street. Some of these wild cam motors that have tons of hp at 6500rpms are a pain to drive inthestreet!

Again, what is your goal for the car?

If you want tons of hp (140-180) go the six route so you can drive the car on the street. A modest increase of hp over stock (15-20) is fun without too much pain for a street car.

Geoff

[Mark Henry]

He-he-he! Muha-ha-ha!

I plan to do some experimentation, see what works and what doesn't, part of the fun of have a full machine shop at my disposal.

My manifold is a modified 2.0 with 2 stock TB's on the top. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/calvin.gif)

My first engine will have a 1.8 with a scat c-25 cam and big valve (44X38mm) high compression heads. Just some junk I have lying around.
This winter I'm building a 2.3

Will I smoke some engines? Maybe, who cares, I got lots of cores.

Should I have done a six? Maybe, but I mostly build VW T1 4 cyls and I want to prove that I can now do the T4 so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stfu.gif)

I just finaily finished moving a out of my dad's barn's my former VW restoration shop, a collection of 15 years of old VW parts and cars. So I will now have a chance to install my SDS, stick in the cam and heads.
I also plan to play with exhausts, maybe dual/dual TB's etc., etc.

Remember some of us canucks are totally crazy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dance.gif)

[DNHunt]

Not so crazy. You just got a way to pass more gas and you want more ponies. PEFI lets you play.

Keep us posted, Good luck

Dave

For me, my car is mainly for the track. So basically, I don't care about street driving. haha.


I am leaning towards:
stock FI, cam, high compression pistons, and maybe big bore, heads, valves, and springs. Something simple.

I hope to shoot towards the 120hp+ range

[maf914]

You might want to talk to Shad Laws or Charles Navarro at LN Engineering. They offer some custom pieces, i.e. fiberglass plenum, for upgrading T4 injection systems. Shad supposedly has a nice 2.6L T4 with stock based FI. Also some pretty spiffy nikasil and biral cylinders. I've seen a couple of sets and they sure are pretty. You might check out their forum:

http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/forumdisp...p?s=&forumid=28

Mike