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> 1911
stewie
post Feb 13 2018, 01:07 PM
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What is the cheapest combination to get a 1911 out of a 1.7 stock everything?

Here is what i have in mind..

94mm pistons and cylinders.. I've heard 94mm is barely adequate so 96 might be a stretch...

stock cam

1.7 heads bored out to the OD register of a 1.8/2.0

Stock crank

stock rods

dual empi 34 carbs

Any other combination that is cheaper and more efficient?
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Optimusglen
post Feb 13 2018, 01:46 PM
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That's probably it. I've got a 1911 using nearly this setup (edit: I'm running 96 pistons). only I'm running Weber 40's.

Many will say that an aftermarket cam is required for carbs, for optimal power maybe, but with the stock setup and well tuned carbs a stock cam is adequate.

edit: I didn't replace the cam on mine because it was a rebuild from a previous owner, just wanted something running until I get my 6 in. If you have the case split at all, I'd suggest doing the cam. But as a bare bones build, it doesn't need it to run fine.
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jcd914
post Feb 13 2018, 02:14 PM
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If you want a 1911 you have to use 96mm pistons.
With 94 pistons you are only building an 1832.

If you are using carbs why use a stock cam.

I would be using FI but I have FI parts.

Good luck with your build, share what you choose to do.

Jim
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stewie
post Feb 13 2018, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE(jcd914 @ Feb 13 2018, 02:14 PM) *

If you want a 1911 you have to use 96mm pistons.
With 94 pistons you are only building an 1832.

If you are using carbs why use a stock cam.

I would be using FI but I have FI parts.

Good luck with your build, share what you choose to do.

Jim


I have FI parts as well... do you think these injectors will work?

Okay so 96mm.. got it.
thanks
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stewie
post Feb 13 2018, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE(Optimusglen @ Feb 13 2018, 01:46 PM) *

That's probably it. I've got a 1911 using nearly this setup (edit: I'm running 96 pistons). only I'm running Weber 40's.

Many will say that an aftermarket cam is required for carbs, for optimal power maybe, but with the stock setup and well tuned carbs a stock cam is adequate.

edit: I didn't replace the cam on mine because it was a rebuild from a previous owner, just wanted something running until I get my 6 in. If you have the case split at all, I'd suggest doing the cam. But as a bare bones build, it doesn't need it to run fine.


Yeah i'll probably end up getting an aftermarket cam for it. How was the power of the 1911 compared to the 1.7? Would you have gone up to 2 or 2056 ?
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Optimusglen
post Feb 13 2018, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE(stewie @ Feb 13 2018, 02:35 PM) *

Yeah i'll probably end up getting an aftermarket cam for it. How was the power of the 1911 compared to the 1.7? Would you have gone up to 2 or 2056 ?


I never drove mine as a 1.7. Previous owner did the 1911 stuff like 30 years ago. When I got the car the engine needed a reseal so I pulled it down to the shortblock and rebuilt from there after inspecting the cam condition through the cylinder holes. My cam and lifters were all in great shape.

The 1911 with a stock cam and Weber 40's certainly isn't fast, but with the weight of these cars you don't need a lot of power to be fun. It drives great and I never felt like it was under-powered to the point of being dangerous (i.e. hard getting up to speed for highway merging etc)

All things I wasn't really too concerned with since I knew I was doing a higher output engine at some point. If this is going to be your main jam engine, I would probably opt for a bigger build. But if you're pinching pennies and just want something drivable, go or it.
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Alphaogre
post Feb 14 2018, 03:47 PM
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When I got my 914, it came with a 1.7 and dual Webber 44's. I drove it for a while and then I had a piston go bad, so I did the short stroke 1911 built. Larger pistons stock stroke, stock cam machined 1.7 heads. It was better, little more grunt and torque than the origin old 1.7 motor...

I then had a rod bearing go bad due to an oil flow blockage... since we now had to split the case I ordered a custom cam, and added a conically shaped oil pressure release valve and the tuna can...

The difference between the short stroke 1911 motor with a cam and doing it without the cam is a BIG difference. The difference between the motor now and the stock 1.7 is night and day...not even close to the same car.

I think when I broke down the math I could have just spent $600 more during the first build, and gotten to my current set up much faster.

I always tell people, there are few things that years down the road, everytime you drive it, you will still say "worth every penny", the cam is one of those things...
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malcolm2
post Feb 14 2018, 05:10 PM
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I don't remember a 94 mm option.....

play with this: https://vwspeedshop.com/Engine%20Calculator.htm

Just plug in the BORE 93, 90. I believe were stock for 1.8, 2.0 and 1.7.
and plug in STROKE 66 or 71. stock for 1.7, 1.8 and 2.0

the liter #s are rounded up. 1.7 = 1680-ish, 1756cc = 1.8 and 1850-ish = 2.0

71 mm crank and 96 pistons gets you 2056cc

then hit the displacement button. You don't have to fill in the other stuff until you want to know the CR, etc....

there are others... google VW engine displacement calculator

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914werke
post Feb 14 2018, 05:26 PM
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Search is your friend HERE
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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jcd914
post Feb 14 2018, 05:35 PM
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66mm stroke x 90mm bore is Stock 1.7L (1679cc)

66mm stroke x 93mm bore is Stock 1.8L (1793cc)

71mm stroke x 94mm bore is Stock 2.0L (1971cc)

66mm stroke x 96mm bore is the common 1911cc build

71mm stroke x 96mm bore is the common 2056cc build

Jim
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worn
post Feb 14 2018, 07:33 PM
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No. Regarding injectors.
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VaccaRabite
post Feb 15 2018, 01:09 PM
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You can use stock D-Jet or L-jet injection with a 1911. BUT you have to keep the stock cam.

To wake up a 1911 you need a better cam and that means either modern EFI or carbs. Your 34s may be enough with jetting changes, but you would be better off with dual 40s (Weber or Dellortos).

Years ago, Jake put together a build list for a $3000 1911/2056. About 1/2 of his cost was in the heads. These days, with used heads being an issue, I think you would have a hard time getting heads prepped for only $1500.

Zach
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stewie
post Feb 15 2018, 01:34 PM
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QUOTE(Alphaogre @ Feb 14 2018, 03:47 PM) *

When I got my 914, it came with a 1.7 and dual Webber 44's. I drove it for a while and then I had a piston go bad, so I did the short stroke 1911 built. Larger pistons stock stroke, stock cam machined 1.7 heads. It was better, little more grunt and torque than the origin old 1.7 motor...

I then had a rod bearing go bad due to an oil flow blockage... since we now had to split the case I ordered a custom cam, and added a conically shaped oil pressure release valve and the tuna can...

The difference between the short stroke 1911 motor with a cam and doing it without the cam is a BIG difference. The difference between the motor now and the stock 1.7 is night and day...not even close to the same car.

I think when I broke down the math I could have just spent $600 more during the first build, and gotten to my current set up much faster.

I always tell people, there are few things that years down the road, everytime you drive it, you will still say "worth every penny", the cam is one of those things...

Makes sense.. Thanks for clarifying. I'll definitely touch the cam. It would economically make more sense to build a 2056 for the $. I really don't know what cam is in my type 4. I have no record history of maintence or service done to it. For all i know it is already a 1911 with an aftermarket cam. It has been converted to a dual carb set up already... If it is a 1911... I would be very surprised. It's pretty dang slow haha. It was listed as a 1.7 on craiglist with no mentions of being rebuilt so i'm pretty confident it's a 1.7.....
QUOTE(malcolm2 @ Feb 14 2018, 05:10 PM) *

I don't remember a 94 mm option.....

play with this: https://vwspeedshop.com/Engine%20Calculator.htm

Just plug in the BORE 93, 90. I believe were stock for 1.8, 2.0 and 1.7.
and plug in STROKE 66 or 71. stock for 1.7, 1.8 and 2.0

the liter #s are rounded up. 1.7 = 1680-ish, 1756cc = 1.8 and 1850-ish = 2.0

71 mm crank and 96 pistons gets you 2056cc

then hit the displacement button. You don't have to fill in the other stuff until you want to know the CR, etc....

there are others... google VW engine displacement calculator

I'm familiar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Thanks!
QUOTE(jcd914 @ Feb 14 2018, 05:35 PM) *

66mm stroke x 90mm bore is Stock 1.7L (1679cc)

66mm stroke x 93mm bore is Stock 1.8L (1793cc)

71mm stroke x 94mm bore is Stock 2.0L (1971cc)

66mm stroke x 96mm bore is the common 1911cc build

71mm stroke x 96mm bore is the common 2056cc build

Jim

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Feb 15 2018, 01:09 PM) *

You can use stock D-Jet or L-jet injection with a 1911. BUT you have to keep the stock cam.

To wake up a 1911 you need a better cam and that means either modern EFI or carbs. Your 34s may be enough with jetting changes, but you would be better off with dual 40s (Weber or Dellortos).

Years ago, Jake put together a build list for a $3000 1911/2056. About 1/2 of his cost was in the heads. These days, with used heads being an issue, I think you would have a hard time getting heads prepped for only $1500.

Zach

Is that the 1911 build he put on the dyno? Makes for a great daily with good torque. Maybe christmas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa_smiley.gif)
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