Build me a Strong 4!, Yes, you heard me! Options

[J P Stein]

[QUOTE=Jeff Krieger,Jul 11 2003, 10:17 AM] [/QUOTE]
Why are you limited to 2.2L when 944s are at least 2.5L? Don't seem fair to me.[/QUOTE]
Fair?....what's that got to do with anything?

Take a look at the SCCA runoffs or SCCA solo II nationals (at Topeka) results. You'll find exactly one Porsche class winner(a 914). It seems odd, considering Porsches racing heritige.

You want fair, buy old British or new Japanese....Oh, they have "special" classes for 'Merican iron, also. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
"Fair" is decent for 914s in PCA racin'.....that's about it.

[Qarl]

L8apex...

Don't rush anything.

Plan out your entire engine from cams to induction, to head mods etc. For reliable HP, every component needs to be matched to other components to achieve the best result.

The head work will really be dictated by your intake, cams, and exhaust flow. Once you determine which cam you want, what type of carb set up you are running, and the exhaust choices... then you can talk to your head guys and make sure your heads flow properly to match the rest of the components. A lot of power can be found in the heads. Even Bruce Anderson states that in his 911 book.

There is also lots of fun and power to be found in balancing everything. Have your P&Cs balanced in to a gram or fraction of a gram of each other.

Have the crank weight balanced. Lighter weight springs, and lifters, and flywheel mods can all add to a freely spinning responsive motor.

Spend money on head work... port and polish, correct size valves for your motor combo, etc.

I would think that something like 100mm P&Cs (spring for Birals or Nikkies), 44 or 48mm carbs, a beefier carb friendly cam like a Webcam 86a or 86b, balance and blueprinting work, minor weight reduction in the flywheel, strong springs, lighter lifters, a good cooling system (air cooling or oil cooling), and a Tangerine Racing header/exhaust combo and you will be rocking!

Talk to Raby... dig in his website a little. There is lots of valuable info there.

Put together an engine on paper and shoot it by the list for critique.

Regards,

[DNHunt]

I'm checking into some of this now. It sure seems there's 3 variables power, durability, and money. If you want both of the first 2 you need plenty of the last 1. If you don't want to spend the money you won't get a lot of the other 2. I can certainly say it's going to take a while to make up my mind.

No matter what there are always going to be compromises. I just saw where LN Engineering is going to market head that cost $2500 a pair. They claim they will make a lot of power but where does it stop. This keeps up the 911 guys won't be thinking of us as the poor relatives from the other side of the tracks. What fun would that be?. We wouldn't have anyone to flip off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/finger.gif)

Dave

[Brad Roberts]

Yep.. convert the car to a six.

Why spend 7k on a 4cyl ?? You still have a 4cyl. when the day is over.

People are starting to give away the early 6cyl engines...


B

yeah, the 6 conversion is definately one of the choices. Which would I get? I saw some awsome prices on some early 6's. What do you think of a 2.4? Then I will need to look into other stuff for the conversion, ie, oil tank and stuff like that. I asume a carbed 6 would be the easiest conversion than a FI. Where should I start looking for some good condition 6's? I've seen some 2.4's sell for around $1500.

[DNHunt]

How do you explain stubborn. My car was made a four it'll rust away as a four. Hey I drive a 914, I'm different. I like challenges. It looks like it will be interesting. I want to buid an engine with my son. I think I can build a four, but not a six. Hell I don't know. Maybe I'm an idiot, well probably. So, what's new, except I'll have one more unique experience with my 914.

Dave, I think I've gone over the edge (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

Play your cards correctly and you can convert a 4cyl car to 6 for under 5k. When you see a deal on parts.. you have to have the money to JUMP.

I would run injection if it was working correctly when the engine came out of the car...

You told us earlier that you had to stay in 2.2 range... which is it and what group do you want to run with ??


B

[Brad Roberts]

Nothing wrong with the fours... I just know what group he is trying to run with and a 4 wont do it unless its a grenade waiting to happen. I have spent a lot of time around 185-190 hp 1.8 liter race engines that spin 8k RPM with stock cranks. After building that 10K race engine.. you now have to gear the car for 8K RPM.

I also know he has an uncle that will supply him with a good 6cyl engine if he whines enough.

Oh..and about the "Jake Followers" earlier.. we get along fine and I send business to him every chance I get. I just dont believe in the large displacement engines for 914's... convert it to a 6 and stand a chance of recovering your investment.


B

[Andyrew]

Jeff, 944's are 900 pounds more than us.. and the N/a's have about as much cheep hp gain as we do.. On the auto x, we have the advantage, on the track, they do (especially the turbo's)

I will whine as much as I can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

But I may just have to fork out my own funds. Must sell girl friend(s) first. I think it will be good experience for me to build a 4 to keep up just in my class and work more on my driving. The later on in the future, I will do a 6. (Maybe like a few years) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

I'll think about it and check on my budget.

[campbellcj]

The comment about always being ready to jump on -6 conversion parts is definitely true...for example I got a NOS factory oil tank for $400 and a bulkhead engine mount (including 911 sport motor mounts) for $300.

No matter what kind of deal you get on the engine, though, it seems like you have to "bend over" a bit on certain stuff i.e. induction (carbs/FI) and oil lines & cooling setup, if you want a car that really works well and is reliable. You don't wanna just drop in somebody's cast-off 70 911T motor with carbs that haven't been rebuilt since bell bottom jeans were brand new.

With my budget, I have settled on building the 4 for now. Work on some driving, and we'll see how I'll do.

What size pistons to get to make it around the 2.2L range?

[cgnj]

Hi,
76x96
Based on building my 2270, you may not have to clear the case or rods. Use the CB super race rods rods. They are smaller on the big end than the Scat Rods. (I used Scat, I gleaned the CB Rod tidbit at STF b4 search went down and after I bought mine)
76 mm cw crank is $450 at aircooled
Rods about $270
Reduced base circle cam $165
KB pistons $250
I spent $1200 on my heads.
Eat exhaust fumes and save for a six.

Carlos

76 2270 'I could have had a flat 6'
76 project

[URY914]

CGNJ,

So you think you wouldn't need to clearance the rods and case if you went with the CB rods?

From reading the STF posts and the amount of clearacing everyone says is needed am planning on building a 2056.
The 2056 and the 2270 are about the same money but from what I read it is all the machining that make the 2270 more work to build.

Did you build your engine yourself?
Would you build the 2270 again?

Paul

[Brad Roberts]

Hum..

I have 2 2270 engines with NO clearancing. Both of them have Carrillo rods and one piece counter weighted cranks.



B

[URY914]

Damn, now I'm back to a 2270...

But who as a grand for Carrillo rods?

Paul

[Brad Roberts]

I think the 2270 would ideal for your car.

I think the rods where 600$. Not cheap..but I'm betting the CB rods are identical to the Carrillo's.


B

[URY914]

BTW,
I've had to revise some of my fiberglass work. The pieces I added to the front fenders to keep the rocks that come off the front tires were a problem. When the wheels where cranked over to full lock the tires rubbed on the them. And I had to cut and pull out the fenders as the tires also rubbed on the lip.

I've also decided to make the drivers door/rocker/front fender one piece like the right side. I found it easier to just step over the door to get in. I'll dzus it so it will be easy to take off when I need to.
Also making a cowling to cover the passenger seat area. You know, for those dry lake runs. Lower Cd=mph.

Paul

What's with This Setup?

I am still pretty lost when it comes to these engines. This looks like a good deal, along with getting the CB 44 IDF carbs and the webcam. How would I go about raising the compression? Just get the heads decked?

[URY914]

I think thats a type 1 kit.
Won't work.