Build Thread: Restoration and New School V8, Photogrammetry: Pics to CAD Options

[Joemo5]

I probably should have joined 914world and started posting earlier but I have been reading and learning ALOT about these cars already from whats posted in other threads. For that, I thank you guys. I have some catching up to do. Heres my story.

I picked up my first 914 a few months ago as a project car that could eventually serve as a track car or weekend toy. Out of the many different types of cars that would make cool projects, I ended up with the 914 in my crosshairs after I discovered that not only they were mid engine but v8 swaps where not uncommon. Other factors include I had never came across one in the wild, which makes them rare to me. I also like the idea of following in my fathers footsteps with a mid engine european car. He had a Lotus Europa in is 20's. Jumping back the v8 idea though, the added weight of a more powerful drivetrain is at the center of the car, meaning there is a minimal increase in the rotational moment of inertia: the car should retain it's handling characteristics better than a v8 swap in a comparable sized car with a forward mounted engine.

After investigating several craigslist ads that turned out to have missing titles, a friend pointed me towards a local Porsche shop that was known for 914's. Bingo. More 914's than I expected. A few short conversations led to a cheap car that needed some work and was up for grabs. Heres what the '75 2.0l car looked like prior to being yanked out of the weeds.



On the trailer headed home



Some of my buddies and I broke out a pressure washer and the car looks good for sitting outside for a year or two.






The car did not have the original engine or trans installed when purchased. Although, they were included in the sale. Some tinkering around got some of the electronics working off a jump start box




Now heres the fun part. A month or two later, I came across a craigslist deal that would add some originality to the project. An 5.3l L83 out of a 2015 silverado with only "15,000" miles for $1200.





Would an engine with 15,000 miles still have the assembly grease in between the rocker and top of the valve? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

For those of you unfamiliar with this engine: It's NOT an LS, its part of the EcoTec Gen V family. The next generation of Chevy v8 that shares some of the architecture with the LS but with direct injection and variable valve timing. Also its an aluminum block which is different from the Gen IV 5.3 truck blocks which were cast iron. Rumor has it that GM is offering a stand alone kit for the gen V engines which, while costly, would simplify the install a lot.

Quick specs:
Stock 380hp and 416 ft-lbs on e85 fuel.
11.0:1 compression ratio
~400lb dressed. Anyone know how much the original 2.0l engine weighs?

At this point I'm sure most of you have thought: "What does the hell hole look like?" The rot is the worst of all the ones I have viewed online. The only saving grace is that after selling the original motor, trans and wheels, I have made back the purchase price of the car and have a few bucks in my pocket. I have some experience in fabrication and plan on being a sheet metal pro by the end of all this.

Heres a shot of the floor pans and fire wall area.



At this point the car is stripped and ready to be mounted on a rotisserie. Lots of bracing prior to mounting on the rotisserie of course.



I have more pics and more details but that should do for now.

[Porschef]

Well, that should be fun. Actually looks like a decent starting point, they all need some welding. With that engine, you're probably gonna need some upgrades...


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Enjoy

[mepstein]

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[Cairo94507]

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Nice find and bought the right way for the project you have in mind. I like the aluminum V-8 too. There are plenty of nice V-8 conversions on the World for you to look at and form your own plan as to how you want your car to come together. Keep the pictures coming and have fun with the build. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mepstein]

A stock 914 engine weighs 250-260 with intake and exhaust. 325 with trans.

[BIGKAT_83]

Wondered how long it would be before someone used a GenV engine. I suspect most of the early LS clutch and flywheel things will work. I know the engine mounts are in a different location.
The high pressure fuel pump is located under the intake on the engine. What kind of pressure to you need to feed this pump?
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[ValcoOscar]

Great Intro....

This one I'll be following.

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[Andyrew]

That engine looks like fun! Which trans are you going with? Boxster/Cayman S seems like what you need with that kind of torque number.

LOTS of rust repair on the chassis though. Floor pans, and longs at the very least. Probably a suspension console and depending on how you want to do the firewall, some repair on that. Plan at least a year on the rust repair if you work on it every other weekend.

[Joemo5]

Wondered how long it would be before someone used a GenV engine. I suspect most of the early LS clutch and flywheel things will work. I know the engine mounts are in a different location.
The high pressure fuel pump is located under the intake on the engine. What kind of pressure to you need to feed this pump?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

From what I have read, the feed pump should be 50-60 psi which is common of cars these days. The tricky part is the engine ecu controls a PWM pump in a returnless system.

[914forme]

From what I have read, the feed pump should be 50-60 psi which is common of cars these days. The tricky part is the engine ecu controls a PWM pump in a returnless system.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Then lets get into this a bit deeper. What makes that a complicated system? Take what we like to call in the diesel world the feed pump, and mount it as close to the tank as you can get. Run one feed line back to the engine, and to the real EFI high pressure pump. All my diesel are ran this way. Even the tractors are ran like this. These are need because they are all direct injection. Takes a huge amount of PSI to over come the compression on the engine. Diesels normally see, 1500 psi or more on the injector side of the pump.

BTW the feed / boaster/ first pump have a return, it is that most are now mounted in the tank, so the return is just dumped into the tank, no extra lines etc... seen.

[Joemo5]

From what I have read, the feed pump should be 50-60 psi which is common of cars these days. The tricky part is the engine ecu controls a PWM pump in a returnless system.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Then lets get into this a bit deeper. What makes that a complicated system? Take what we like to call in the diesel world the feed pump, and mount it as close to the tank as you can get. Run one feed line back to the engine, and to the real EFI high pressure pump. All my diesel are ran this way. Even the tractors are ran like this. These are need because they are all direct injection. Takes a huge amount of PSI to over come the compression on the engine. Diesels normally see, 1500 psi or more on the injector side of the pump.

BTW the feed / boaster/ first pump have a return, it is that most are now mounted in the tank, so the return is just dumped into the tank, no extra lines etc... seen.

Your correct about the direct injection high pressure pump system that's at the engine but the feed/supply pump is Pulse Width Modulated to control the pressure in the line. A pressure switch monitors the fuel line pressure and an electronic control module adjusts the supply voltage frequency to the pump accordingly so that the pump only runs if and as fast as needed. No in tank return system and no excess heat created which may be beneficial considering the front mounted radiator associated with most v8 swaps. I was wrong about the pressure required out of the supply pump. A little more research suggests that too keep the high pressure pump supplied correctly, 72 psi and 45gph is needed from the supply/feed pump. Finding a pump that fits those specs and fits in the 914 tank is the tricky part I was referring to.

[914forme]

Okay,

Lots of the Subaru swaps put the stock in tank fuel pump into the the 914 tank. Lots of interesting ways of getting this done. As for the Pulse Width Modulation system of the fuel pump.

SpearTech comes to mind to solve your issues.

Hope that starts to send you towards your goal. Best of luck.

[JRust]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) Good looking project there. Love the v8 setup & hope you do the Boxtser S transmission. Awesome LS setup. Looking forward to that coming together. Lot's of metal work needed. That is a little easier when you aren't as concerned about it being stock. Give's you more options on how to do things. There are quite a few great build here that really go extreme on metal fab work. You are in the right place

[Andyrew]

From what I have read, the feed pump should be 50-60 psi which is common of cars these days. The tricky part is the engine ecu controls a PWM pump in a returnless system.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Then lets get into this a bit deeper. What makes that a complicated system? Take what we like to call in the diesel world the feed pump, and mount it as close to the tank as you can get. Run one feed line back to the engine, and to the real EFI high pressure pump. All my diesel are ran this way. Even the tractors are ran like this. These are need because they are all direct injection. Takes a huge amount of PSI to over come the compression on the engine. Diesels normally see, 1500 psi or more on the injector side of the pump.

BTW the feed / boaster/ first pump have a return, it is that most are now mounted in the tank, so the return is just dumped into the tank, no extra lines etc... seen.

Your correct about the direct injection high pressure pump system that's at the engine but the feed/supply pump is Pulse Width Modulated to control the pressure in the line. A pressure switch monitors the fuel line pressure and an electronic control module adjusts the supply voltage frequency to the pump accordingly so that the pump only runs if and as fast as needed. No in tank return system and no excess heat created which may be beneficial considering the front mounted radiator associated with most v8 swaps. I was wrong about the pressure required out of the supply pump. A little more research suggests that too keep the high pressure pump supplied correctly, 72 psi and 45gph is needed from the supply/feed pump. Finding a pump that fits those specs and fits in the 914 tank is the tricky part I was referring to.

You can always just run a surge tank and then go with a high end pump like a Bosch 044. This is what I have, I put the tank in the engine bay and have a carb pump feeding into the surge tank. My setup shouldnt run out of fuel till ~600hp on E85, and Im not likely to turn it up that much...

[tazz9924]

Okay,

Lots of the Subaru swaps put the stock in tank fuel pump into the the 914 tank. Lots of interesting ways of getting this done. As for the Pulse Width Modulation system of the fuel pump.

SpearTech comes to mind to solve your issues.

Hope that starts to send you towards your goal. Best of luck.

When i did my Subaru swap i got a walbro 255 that i mounted in the engine bay right off my stainless steel fuel lines

[burton73]

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Bob B

[914forme]

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I was suggesting he modify the 914 gas tank to accept the PWM in tank fuel pump used from his donor. In this case a Chevy / GMC pickup truck.

This would allow him to keep the same factory setup and fuel pump used in the original vehicle. The difference with the PWM is that it modulates the pressure to feed the fuel to the high pressure pump. On the Gen V that high pressure pump can reach pressures as high as 2500 PSI at the injector. To achieve this high pressure unfortunately it does not have a lot of ability to draw fuel into the pump. That is why it has the booster fuel pump. It is used to push the fuel into the high pressure pump.

The Gen V is a neat little engine, nothing revolutionary in it's design, just well put together. As the aftermarket support increases for this engine it will help keep hot rodding alive and well for years to come.

Watching this one come together, and making me think about the conversion myself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[Joemo5]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
I was suggesting he modify the 914 gas tank to accept the PWM in tank fuel pump used from his donor. In this case a Chevy / GMC pickup truck.

This would allow him to keep the same factory setup and fuel pump used in the original vehicle. The difference with the PWM is that it modulates the pressure to feed the fuel to the high pressure pump. On the Gen V that high pressure pump can reach pressures as high as 2500 PSI at the injector. To achieve this high pressure unfortunately it does not have a lot of ability to draw fuel into the pump. That is why it has the booster fuel pump. It is used to push the fuel into the high pressure pump.

The Gen V is a neat little engine, nothing revolutionary in it's design, just well put together. As the aftermarket support increases for this engine it will help keep hot rodding alive and well for years to come.

Watching this one come together, and making me think about the conversion myself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I agree that the best option would be to use the pump from the doner and associated control system which is what I will try to do. However, that Speartech link you posted has info about using a normal high flow pump and vacuum referenced pressure regulator. So apparently someone out there has done it without the fancy PMW system. Honestly though, I'm a long way off from having to make fuel system decisions.

[Maltese Falcon]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) looks like the PO had an aftermarket a/c going on in the front trunk (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) If you plan to exit your spent radiator air out the bottom, you have a head start ...just close up what you don't need !

[Andyrew]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) looks like the PO had an aftermarket a/c going on in the front trunk (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) If you plan to exit your spent radiator air out the bottom, you have a head start ...just close up what you don't need !

Generates to much lift under the car at speed. Wheel well or hood exhaust would be my only choices