Fuel Pump AN fitting?, is there a way to do it? Options

[DougC]

Here's a picture of the pump I'll be using for the six, is there a way to add an AN fitting to this end that has been bubble flared from the factory?

Doug C

[DougC]

Or should I just use high pressure fuel injection hose and clamps ...and relax? Going on a CIS engine btw.

Doug C

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (DougC @ Jun 7 2005, 02:42 PM)

Or should I just use high pressure fuel injection hose and clamps ...and relax? Going on a CIS engine btw.

the beaded fitting is the inlet - sees no pressure. use a nice hose clamp and you'll be fine.

on the other end, there is an adapter fitting that will fit the pump directly, but at the expense of the check valve. i tried using an external check valve and was never happy with the results; i finally bought a banjo bolt AN-6 hose end and used the rest of the stock hardware.

[Joe Bob]

The pressure side needs a banjo fitting AND an internal check valve. W/o the check valve pressure bleeds off and the CIS will refuse start while warm....BTDT.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE ("*" @ Jun 7 2005, 02:56 PM)

The pressure side needs a banjo fitting AND an internal check valve.

not so, mr ass-to-risk guy ...

a banjo fitting is an easy way to use the stock check valve and kills two birds with one stone. there's even a 90-degree fitting that works reasonably well for packaging.

but you CAN install an adapter (IIRC it's the same as the Weber carb threads) and use an external check valve, if you can find one that will take the pressure. the one i used couldn't, despite the fact that it should have.

i agree you definitely need *A* check valve. and a functioning accumulator.

[DougC]

OK, who has the Banjo Fittings, think I know what they look like..but maybe not..and the check valves, which I have no idea what it looks like?
Probably BAT?

Doug C

[lapuwali]

Any Earl's or Aeroquip supplier, like Pegasus.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (DougC @ Jun 7 2005, 03:10 PM)

OK, who has the Banjo Fittings, think I know what they look like..but maybe not..and the check valves, which I have no idea what it looks like?

here's a Banjo from the Earl's site - had to look way harder for it on that site than i shouldda had to...

a check valve can look like anything. that brass fitting screwed into the end of your fuel pump picture is a check valve. often (for race car plumbing) they'll simply be cylinders with AN fittings on each end. make sure you get one that can handle 4 Bar...

[ArtechnikA]

now *I* forgot the picture...


banjo hose end:

[John]

Why that looks just like my Carrera fuel pump in our track car.

My fuel pump came with the banjo fitting nut and sealing rings. I took my pump and banjo fitting to my local hydraulic hose fabricator (who did all my oil lines) and asked them.

They provided me with high pressure hose (stainless steel braided) and swaged the banjo fitting right to the end of the fuel hose. They used a crimp ring from some other fitting, but it went together like they had done them up for years. I had them only install one end at a time so I could route the fuel line to where I needed it to go. I then marked the length and had them put the other end on.

I did the same thing for my fuel filter (yes I use the stock Carrera fuel filter). I had a short section of the hard line that included the fitting to the stock fuel filter and took that to the hydraulic hose guys and they fixed me right up. I should take a pic when I get home....

The hose is an industrial rubber hose with the braided stainless covering and is rated at some very large pressure. All my fittings are steel and will probably last forever. The hydraulics guys don't use aluminum fittings as they are not strong enough, and are too easy to damage. (at least in an industrial application)

I found that the local hydraulic hose shops are easy to work with, you can get exactly what you want, and they can make it right there while you wait. They really like to see your car when you are done with it as well. I found that the prices are much better than the "race car parts" that are found elsewhere.

[Joe Bob]

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Jun 7 2005, 11:03 AM)

QUOTE ("*" @ Jun 7 2005, 02:56 PM) The pressure side needs a banjo fitting AND an internal check valve. not so, mr ass-to-risk guy ... a banjo fitting is an easy way to use the stock check valve and kills two birds with one stone. there's even a 90-degree fitting that works reasonably well for packaging. but you CAN install an adapter (IIRC it's the same as the Weber carb threads) and use an external check valve, if you can find one that will take the pressure. the one i used couldn't, despite the fact that it should have. i agree you definitely need *A* check valve. and a functioning accumulator.

Didn't mean to imply that the check valve was part of the banjo fitting....it...at least on my CIS motors fit inside the neck of the fuel pump...

[DougC]

I guess then there's a chance that I already have a check valve inside the end of that pump...

Doug C

[ArtechnikA]

check valve:

[DougC]

Art, I just reread your post a few spots up where you "told me" that was a check valve. Now you really know what kinda individual you're dealing with I guess (DA) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)

Doug C

[Britain Smith]

Alright.

I am running a 930 fuel pump in my type-4 turbo project. I ran stainless steel lines through the car and flared the ends with AN flares and tube nuts. This is the first time I have heard anything about a check valve in the fitting on the pump. How important is this piece? Do I need it in my application? I am running EFI with a Aeromotive fuel filter and Aeromotive 1:1 fuel pressure regulator. If I do need such valve, can I put one inline with AN fittings?

-Britain

(IMG:http://www.britainsmith.com/Porsche/912Project/Assembly/images/179_0011_JPG.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.britainsmith.com/Porsche/912Project/Assembly/images/179_0013_JPG.jpg)

[Joe Bob]

As mentioned before....the check valve keeps pressure in the line to assist in hot starts. The COLD start system doesn't assist in the start sequence...if I'm remembering correctly.....since the engine is too warm.

Symptom of a failed check valve....engine turns over but refuses to start. Lifting of the flapper in the air box fools the pump into pumping more fuel into the system and starting.....the BITCH...is that it's a two person job. Lifting the flap and turning the engine over...unless you have long arms.

I was able to get my 3.0 started by spritzing "quick start" into the intake and quickly hitting the starter. Other times, I simply waited for it to cool down or got a stranger to turn the key.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (Britain Smith @ Jun 8 2005, 01:44 AM)

If I do need such valve, can I put one inline with AN fittings?

with your injection - i donno. maybe not.
CIS is very picky about having its full ration of fuel pressure or the injectors will not squirt (they rely on a hydraulic resonance).

try it and see.

yes on two - Earl's (and undoubtedly others) have high-pressure check valves with AN-6 male fittings both ends. i had my system (CIS) plumbed exactly the same way yours is, with an inline check valve - but it didn't hold pressure very well despite the description. MHO: if you need one, don't get the cheap one that "should" work -- get the 2X expensive one and be done with it.