Ideas On Auxiliary Heating Systems, Using Headers but Want Heat! Options

[Mark Henry]

I looked at why a Tesla doesn't use a heat pump, apparently an auto would have a major icing issue due to moisture, rain, snow, etc. Tesla uses basically a water heater to heat coolant.

You could do something similar with an Espar hot box, where you heat coolant. You would of course still have to plumb it, need a heater core, diesel tank, coolant tank,etc, etc, but the hose would be much smaller lines to run.

[edwin]

I've been seriously considering buying one of the Webasto style diesel heaters out of china.
Slightly less to go wrong than a cheap petrol heater.
2kw normaly advertise less than 0.5L/hr which means most of us could use a tiny 1-2L aux tank and be comfy for hours.
Did I mention they are less than $300 of our slightly more useless Australian dollars?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-2KW-Diesel-...vYAAOSwMhda1wMk

[Mblizzard]

While you lose some of the instant heat, I would go with the oil as a heat source. While that can become complex an inexpensive sandwich plate with the oil routed to 2 round oil coolers small enough to fit in heater tubes. Not sure of the heater tube ID but on a quick search found the coolers down to 3-inch in diameter.3-inch PVC has Id of 3.068 inches. Oil cooler approximately $33 in cost.




Make a cap to fit the ¼-inch oil lines through and 2-1/4 inches square and 1-inch thick 12-volt fans that slides over the heater tubes. 2-fans are about $60. Of course, with a little work and flexible tubing you could use the stock fan as well.



Not sure how much heat would be generated from the surface area but depending on how much could be placed inside the heater (found them in 12, 15, and 18 inch lengths) they should be capable of putting out a lot of heat.
Wire the on for the fans to the heater lever via a relay and you’re done.

Of course, variable speed fans would give you more control of the heat but his should be easy to do. As another option if the oil cooler won’t fit inside the tubes or you did not want to buy 2 oil coolers you could use one cooler inside a tube external to the heater tubes with flexible hoses running to each heater tube. Could also work with stock fan.

[McMark]

Is your car 4cyl? Cause I can get you a 250amp alternator that'll fit. Then shop for 12v heaters for truckers/tractors/lorries/etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

http://www.my12voltstore.com/product_p/sd12-5000.htm


DC Thermal 12 Volt Ducted Heater - Direct Hook-Up - 50 Amps, 600 Watts - 10,020 BTU


DC Thermals heaters are hand built in the USA with only the very best parts, motors, and wire. These heaters are not constructed of snap together plastic, and cheap internal parts. DC Thermals heaters are designed to last you a lifetime, not a season. DC Thermal heaters will work in any vehicle with a DC electrical system including cars, trucks, vans, busses, heavy equipment, etc. Measures 9"x5"x4" and will easily fit into tight spaces. Vents and Hoses are not included. They can be purchased separately. Part Numbers: DCT-defrost, DCT-Horizon
DC Thermal SD12-5000 � another winner from DC Thermal, a leading manufacturer of 12 Volt Heaters offers various easy to use models of portable 12 volt heaters.





Features
Available with 2, 3, or 4 vent outlets
Adjustable Fan Speed
Heater Dimensions: 9�x 5� X 4�
12 Volt, 50 Amps, 600 Watts
10,020 BTU�s
Brushless 50,000 Hour Ball Bearing Fan
10,000 Hour DC Thermal �RuCar Vacuum Sealed Elements.
Case Construction: T5052 Aluminum.
Wired Entirely with GXL Wire
HIGH and LOW Heat Settings.
Thermally Protected
TWO YEAR Parts AND Labor Warranty

[Mblizzard]

Is your car 4cyl? Cause I can get you a 250amp alternator that'll fit. Then shop for 12v heaters for truckers/tractors/lorries/etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

http://www.my12voltstore.com/product_p/sd12-5000.htm


DC Thermal 12 Volt Ducted Heater - Direct Hook-Up - 50 Amps, 600 Watts - 10,020 BTU


DC Thermals heaters are hand built in the USA with only the very best parts, motors, and wire. These heaters are not constructed of snap together plastic, and cheap internal parts. DC Thermals heaters are designed to last you a lifetime, not a season. DC Thermal heaters will work in any vehicle with a DC electrical system including cars, trucks, vans, busses, heavy equipment, etc. Measures 9"x5"x4" and will easily fit into tight spaces. Vents and Hoses are not included. They can be purchased separately. Part Numbers: DCT-defrost, DCT-Horizon
DC Thermal SD12-5000 � another winner from DC Thermal, a leading manufacturer of 12 Volt Heaters offers various easy to use models of portable 12 volt heaters.





Features
Available with 2, 3, or 4 vent outlets
Adjustable Fan Speed
Heater Dimensions: 9�x 5� X 4�
12 Volt, 50 Amps, 600 Watts
10,020 BTU�s
Brushless 50,000 Hour Ball Bearing Fan
10,000 Hour DC Thermal �RuCar Vacuum Sealed Elements.
Case Construction: T5052 Aluminum.
Wired Entirely with GXL Wire
HIGH and LOW Heat Settings.
Thermally Protected
TWO YEAR Parts AND Labor Warranty

Don’t get me wrong, I almost put in that high amp alternator during the last engine drop. But at $200 plus for the alternator and another $200 plus for heater that you have to squeeze in an already tight space it seems like an option that uses most of the the original equipment might be easier.

[mepstein]

Different year, same thread.

[Dave_Darling]

While you lose some of the instant heat, I would go with the oil as a heat source.

Or you could go with something that costs even less and works almost exactly as well:

-Nothing at all.

--DD

[mepstein]

I don’t understand why guys don’t like the ss heat exchangers. Jake Raby said they are good for up to 165-170hp engines. They are totally bolt on, reasonably priced and replacement parts are available. The system is light weight and works great.

[Mblizzard]

While you lose some of the instant heat, I would go with the oil as a heat source.

Or you could go with something that costs even less and works almost exactly as well:

-Nothing at all.

--DD

OK so I am not sure I see a connection. Are you saying you cant get sufficient heat from engine oil?

Quick calculation indicates that a small oil cooler with just 1 meter of surface area could transfer almost 900 watts of heat if the oil was at 180 and the outside temp was 30F.

[Mblizzard]

I don’t understand why guys don’t like the ss heat exchangers. Jake Raby said they are good for up to 165-170hp engines. They are totally bolt on, reasonably priced and replacement parts are available. The system is light weight and works great.

That's what I am running now. I am OK with the heat they make but it could be better and you always have that engine smell in the car.

I just think there might be a way to solve it for people that don't have heat for what ever reason.

So I have ordered some of the parts and will see if this is even possible.

[mepstein]

I don’t understand why guys don’t like the ss heat exchangers. Jake Raby said they are good for up to 165-170hp engines. They are totally bolt on, reasonably priced and replacement parts are available. The system is light weight and works great.

That's what I am running now. I am OK with the heat they make but it could be better and you always have that engine smell in the car.

I just think there might be a way to solve it for people that don't have heat for what ever reason.

So I have ordered some of the parts and will see if this is even possible.

The heat on high should be burning you out of the car. check your connections. There really shouldn't be an engine smell. Again, check your connections. You may need to clean out your heat exchangers. You can get your local mechanic to use a smoke machine to make sure there are no cracks in the headers. This can be done with the heat exchangers on the car.
I also shove a vacuum hose from the engine compartment down the longs to get out dust and dirt and whatever animal has crawled in.

[Mblizzard]

I don’t understand why guys don’t like the ss heat exchangers. Jake Raby said they are good for up to 165-170hp engines. They are totally bolt on, reasonably priced and replacement parts are available. The system is light weight and works great.

That's what I am running now. I am OK with the heat they make but it could be better and you always have that engine smell in the car.

I just think there might be a way to solve it for people that don't have heat for what ever reason.

So I have ordered some of the parts and will see if this is even possible.

The heat on high should be burning you out of the car. check your connections. There really shouldn't be an engine smell. Again, check your connections. You may need to clean out your heat exchangers. You can get your local mechanic to use a smoke machine to make sure there are no cracks in the headers. This can be done with the heat exchangers on the car.
I also shove a vacuum hose from the engine compartment down the longs to get out dust and dirt and whatever animal has crawled in.

All that is done an good. As far as the engine smell I am not sure I see how it is possible to completely eliminate that. The impeller and blower fan intake air from the engine compartment. The least bit of oil on the heat exchangers when stopped or moving slow always makes it into the engine compartment and then to the inside of the car.

Certainly it can be varied by m

[Rand]

Warmer clothes ? Layer up... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Lol.. maybe in sunny CA but not up here in the NE.
It's April 21 st and temps are still in the 40's here.

Seriously? 40s? You mean above freezing or below? LOL That's not cold. I still commute on a bicycle when it's that warm.

I dress for how I need to be comfortable OUTSIDE. Then the car is just warmer.

Defrost is the real hassle, but a coating of RainX inside and out of all glass can help big time with that.

[Dave_Darling]

OK so I am not sure I see a connection. Are you saying you cant get sufficient heat from engine oil?

Quick calculation indicates that a small oil cooler with just 1 meter of surface area could transfer almost 900 watts of heat if the oil was at 180 and the outside temp was 30F.

If you have a 1-square-meter oil cooler (that's a big one!!) how long do you think it will take to get your oil to 180F when the ambient air is 30F?

If you're letting the car idle, it will be somewhere between 20 minutes and never. If you're driving, I hope you've got the windshield cleared off already, but it will still take 5 or 10 minutes to get anywhere near that.

So I exaggerated a little bit, but the point is that for most of us the oil-fed heater core isn't going to provide any appreciable warm air when we need it.

--DD

[Mblizzard]

OK so I am not sure I see a connection. Are you saying you cant get sufficient heat from engine oil?

Quick calculation indicates that a small oil cooler with just 1 meter of surface area could transfer almost 900 watts of heat if the oil was at 180 and the outside temp was 30F.

If you have a 1-square-meter oil cooler (that's a big one!!) how long do you think it will take to get your oil to 180F when the ambient air is 30F?

If you're letting the car idle, it will be somewhere between 20 minutes and never. If you're driving, I hope you've got the windshield cleared off already, but it will still take 5 or 10 minutes to get anywhere near that.

So I exaggerated a little bit, but the point is that for most of us the oil-fed heater core isn't going to provide any appreciable warm air when we need it.

--DD

You are correct on the delay! Not sure that I did my math correctly. I think the surface are would be about only.4SM which does bring down the potential output to about 360 watts.

Going to play with the concept a bit just for fun.

[98101]

You are correct on the delay! Not sure that I did my math correctly. I think the surface are would be about only.4SM which does bring down the potential output to about 360 watts.

Going to play with the concept a bit just for fun.

Possibly due to my front-mounted oil cooler, on cool Seattle winter days (generally well above freezing) my oil temperature gauge will take about 10 minutes of driving to budge off the 50C floor. It might take 30 minutes of driving for it to get to 80C (176F). That's the highest I've seen it.

I still hope you do this experiment because models and assumptions often turn out to be wrong.... and I'd love another option for getting heat.

[98101]

Seriously? 40s? You mean above freezing or below? LOL That's not cold. I still commute on a bicycle when it's that warm.

I used to commute on bicycle in any weather, and never knew what my girlfriends were complaining about in my 914 with no heat. (As an aside, it seems the same women who are attracted to the *idea* of a convertible in the early dating phase will the be ones asking for the top to be on later.)

My wife simply wouldn't go with me on the motorcycle without heated gear. Once I tried heated gear, I was hooked. I did a ride without it and felt that being so cold affected my judgement and especially my enjoyment.

In my Miata, having a good heater means I can leave the top open more than I could otherwise.

So I'm happy to join the wimp club. I'd love to have a heater in my 914. Didn't need one today though.

[Garland]

For me, it was around 40 years old, when I started running with heat exchangers. Best long term solution for heat. And yes I did try using a 12v window defroster. Right!

[wysri9]

For my stripped competition/road car I am going for a heated windscreen :-
http://www.heatedwindscreen.com

and hoping reduced padding on the rear bulkhead will allow some heat to come through. I am not planning on running in winter on the heavily salted Scottish roads though.....

[EdwardBlume]

While you lose some of the instant heat, I would go with the oil as a heat source.

Or you could go with something that costs even less and works almost exactly as well:

-Nothing at all.

--DD

Long underwear, assuming you wear underwear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif)