Ideas On Auxiliary Heating Systems, Using Headers but Want Heat! Options

[Dave_Darling]

In my Miata, having a good heater means I can leave the top open more than I could otherwise.

So I'm happy to join the wimp club. I'd love to have a heater in my 914. Didn't need one today though.

Heh, I still remember getting pulled over by a cop in a "no cruising zone" (enforced because of gunfire happening there earlier in the week) while on my way home from a 4-midnight shift at work. The cop gave me grief about how cold I must be with the top off. I sad, "the heat works fine, I'm warmer than you are right now!"

I'm lucky there wasn't anything wrong with my car and I wasn't speeding, so he couldn't write me a ticket for having a big mouth....

--DD

[mepstein]

In my Miata, having a good heater means I can leave the top open more than I could otherwise.

So I'm happy to join the wimp club. I'd love to have a heater in my 914. Didn't need one today though.

Heh, I still remember getting pulled over by a cop in a "no cruising zone" (enforced because of gunfire happening there earlier in the week) while on my way home from a 4-midnight shift at work. The cop gave me grief about how cold I must be with the top off. I sad, "the heat works fine, I'm warmer than you are right now!"

I'm lucky there wasn't anything wrong with my car and I wasn't speeding, so he couldn't write me a ticket for having a big mouth....

--DD

It is nice to crank the heat and drive with the top off on a chilly day. Keep the windows up and it's comfy inside.

[SirAndy]

but the point is that for most of us the oil-fed heater core isn't going to provide any appreciable warm air when we need it.

Funny, when i went with the "out the top of the hood" vent for my large front mounted oil cooler *everyone* told me i would end up with a sauna in the car whenever i take the top off and my car would lose 500hp because it would now ingest boiling hot air coming over the roof.

Btw, neither of those predictions became reality ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

I believe I didn't say either of those things. I did say that you'd get reverse air flow because the lid was a high-pressure area.

Turned out I was wrong.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

--DD

[Rand]

Seriously? 40s? You mean above freezing or below? LOL That's not cold. I still commute on a bicycle when it's that warm.

I used to commute on bicycle in any weather, and never knew what my girlfriends were complaining about in my 914 with no heat. (As an aside, it seems the same women who are attracted to the *idea* of a convertible in the early dating phase will the be ones asking for the top to be on later.)

My wife simply wouldn't go with me on the motorcycle without heated gear. Once I tried heated gear, I was hooked. I did a ride without it and felt that being so cold affected my judgement and especially my enjoyment.

In my Miata, having a good heater means I can leave the top open more than I could otherwise.

So I'm happy to join the wimp club. I'd love to have a heater in my 914. Didn't need one today though.

I completely understand and respect the wimp club, even though I often comment like I did for fun. I have a car with creature comforts too. I just won't go down that road with my 914. It's not the car for that.

Bottom line that seems to keep being regurgitated year after year is: The best electric option is heated seats. You cannot heat and defrost your car from a 12v source. STOP trying. "Capn' I cannotta change the laws of physics."

Heat exchangers just work. The most solid solution.

The gas heaters can work great, you just have to be willing to go through a proper installation.

Keep seeking another solution if you want to waste your time. Or come up with something that hasn't already been tried and proven to fail around here.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

[MikeInMunich]

Seriously? 40s? You mean above freezing or below? LOL That's not cold. I still commute on a bicycle when it's that warm.

I used to commute on bicycle in any weather, and never knew what my girlfriends were complaining about in my 914 with no heat. (As an aside, it seems the same women who are attracted to the *idea* of a convertible in the early dating phase will the be ones asking for the top to be on later.)

My wife simply wouldn't go with me on the motorcycle without heated gear. Once I tried heated gear, I was hooked. I did a ride without it and felt that being so cold affected my judgement and especially my enjoyment.

In my Miata, having a good heater means I can leave the top open more than I could otherwise.

So I'm happy to join the wimp club. I'd love to have a heater in my 914. Didn't need one today though.

I completely understand and respect the wimp club, even though I often comment like I did for fun. I have a car with creature comforts too. I just won't go down that road with my 914. It's not the car for that.

Bottom line that seems to keep being regurgitated year after year is: The best electric option is heated seats. You cannot heat and defrost your car from a 12v source. STOP trying. "Capn' I cannotta change the laws of physics."

Heat exchangers just work. The most solid solution.

The gas heaters can work great, you just have to be willing to go through a proper installation.

Keep seeking another solution if you want to waste your time. Or come up with something that hasn't already been tried and proven to fail around here.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

So 12v and e.g. 100 amps from a high output alternator is unfeasible? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

M.i.M.

[EdwardBlume]

Heh, I still remember getting pulled over by a cop in a "no cruising zone" (enforced because of gunfire happening there earlier in the week) while on my way home from a 4-midnight shift at work. The cop gave me grief about how cold I must be with the top off. I sad, "the heat works fine, I'm warmer than you are right now!"

--DD

Sounds intimate. Was this on Sunset strip?

I'm confused though... was he the "John" or were you?

[Mblizzard]

Seriously? 40s? You mean above freezing or below? LOL That's not cold. I still commute on a bicycle when it's that warm.

I used to commute on bicycle in any weather, and never knew what my girlfriends were complaining about in my 914 with no heat. (As an aside, it seems the same women who are attracted to the *idea* of a convertible in the early dating phase will the be ones asking for the top to be on later.)

My wife simply wouldn't go with me on the motorcycle without heated gear. Once I tried heated gear, I was hooked. I did a ride without it and felt that being so cold affected my judgement and especially my enjoyment.

In my Miata, having a good heater means I can leave the top open more than I could otherwise.

So I'm happy to join the wimp club. I'd love to have a heater in my 914. Didn't need one today though.

I completely understand and respect the wimp club, even though I often comment like I did for fun. I have a car with creature comforts too. I just won't go down that road with my 914. It's not the car for that.

Bottom line that seems to keep being regurgitated year after year is: The best electric option is heated seats. You cannot heat and defrost your car from a 12v source. STOP trying. "Capn' I cannotta change the laws of physics."

Heat exchangers just work. The most solid solution.

The gas heaters can work great, you just have to be willing to go through a proper installation.

Keep seeking another solution if you want to waste your time. Or come up with something that hasn't already been tried and proven to fail around here.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

So 12v and e.g. 100 amps from a high output alternator is unfeasible? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

M.i.M.

I think you would need more than 100 AMPs. See McMarks Post

[Mark Henry]

Gas powered Webasto or Espar?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=8825

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-179-1422730038.jpg)

With a modern espar or wabaso gas heater this would be a much cleaner install. Plenty of room to put a small diesel tank if you want to use a truck bunk heater. A bunk heater will roast you out. They use them for ice fishing huts up here and they have to be careful not to melt the ice they're sitting on.

On a six conversion, without a relay board, you cold likely mount it in the bay and tie it into the heat tubes without cutting a single hole.

[Dave_Darling]

So 12v and e.g. 100 amps from a high output alternator is unfeasible? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

You'll want to run #00 welding cables from the alt to the battery and from the battery to your heater...

--DD

[worn]

So 12v and e.g. 100 amps from a high output alternator is unfeasible? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

You'll want to run #00 welding cables from the alt to the battery and from the battery to your heater...

--DD

For 1200 watts? Of course you would have to leave some of that behind for the other needs of the car. Step it up 110 with an inverter on the way and the wiring could be an extension cord. Which brings me to the Honda generator in the trunk idea. Small household space heater in the car.

Another idea is to put the webasto in the right rear wheel well and duct into the existing air system.

I want to go to WCR across the Rockies from me. Will I make it without a heat exchanger? The front fan works, and I can bundle up, but I do want to see ahead.

[mepstein]

So 12v and e.g. 100 amps from a high output alternator is unfeasible? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

You'll want to run #00 welding cables from the alt to the battery and from the battery to your heater...

--DD

For 1200 watts? Of course you would have to leave some of that behind for the other needs of the car. Step it up 110 with an inverter on the way and the wiring could be an extension cord. Which brings me to the Honda generator in the trunk idea. Small household space heater in the car.

Another idea is to put the webasto in the right rear wheel well and duct into the existing air system.

I want to go to WCR across the Rockies from me. Will I make it without a heat exchanger? The front fan works, and I can bundle up, but I do want to see ahead.

buy a heated seat pad. plug it into power outlet. fold it up when you get to WCR

[worn]

[/quote]
buy a heated seat pad. plug it into power outlet. fold it up when you get to WCR
[/quote]

OK. Thanks. Think the cold air will handle the defrost? While it may conceivably snow, I am really thinking about rain and possible wet clothing getting in and out of the car. That can fog things up. I also have some rained antifog.

[98101]

I don’t understand why guys don’t like the ss heat exchangers. Jake Raby said they are good for up to 165-170hp engines. They are totally bolt on, reasonably priced and replacement parts are available. The system is light weight and works great.

I've been advised that the 1 5/8" headers that came with my car are part of why the engine is underperforming for a 2366. (Chris F's opinion here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2567229
).

So I'm intrigued by Jake Raby's statement, since I'd love to have heat and defog next winter. Wouldn't I lose more power by going to ss heat exchangers intended for a stock engine?

[Mark Henry]

I don’t understand why guys don’t like the ss heat exchangers. Jake Raby said they are good for up to 165-170hp engines. They are totally bolt on, reasonably priced and replacement parts are available. The system is light weight and works great.

I've been advised that the 1 5/8" headers that came with my car are part of why the engine is underperforming for a 2366. (Chris F's opinion here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2567229
).

So I'm intrigued by Jake Raby's statement, since I'd love to have heat and defog next winter. Wouldn't I lose more power by going to ss heat exchangers intended for a stock engine?

I don't think that quote is correct, for HP Jake always said a proper sized header makes the most power. Ballpark 5% for stock to 15+% on a performance engine. A 180hp engine could lose 25hp with small 1-3/8" ID heat exchangers.
A header is the greatest bolt on HP you can add to your 914.

[GeorgeRud]

Maybe Ben (mb911) would make some if there was enough demand, but perhaps fabricating some outer envelopes over currently made headers may be a more reasonably priced alternative.

[76-914]

It was interesting to hear Scott? @PMS speak to the importance of not over sizing your exhaust. He showed us one car that never met it's potential until they reduced the size of the collector. He said that was one of the more common mistakes that we, the occasional builder make! This may apply to high output engines only; didn't ask.
Heated seats are a God send. I cannot have mine on high or I'll roast my arse. I have a water cooled conversion and never run the heat unless it's below freezing. Otherwise, I need to roll down a window to blend in some cold air. Before you make any attempt to add heat or AC seal and insulate! Replace the old door seals if they're torn, the old roof seals and plug any holes in the bulkhead including old worn grommets. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[larryM]

... perhaps fabricating some outer envelopes over currently made headers may be a more reasonably priced alternative.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

EXCELLENT IDEA - should not be all that difficult for someone with the right sheet metal tools - there are clearly some among us who will take on any fabrication challenge

i made a set of templates long long ago off my oem -6 headers, but never bothered to follow thru on the idea (they are on a shelf somewhere)

(oem heat boxes make the routine obligatory tending to the valves etc a major PITA on both -4s & -6s)

- don't need heat in sunny california

- or if i do, i drive the Miata instead - maybe even top-down

[theer]

I have a water cooled conversion and never run the heat unless it's below freezing. Otherwise, I need to roll down a window to blend in some cold air. Before you make any attempt to add heat or AC seal and insulate! Replace the old door seals if they're torn, the old roof seals and plug any holes in the bulkhead including old worn grommets. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Do tell more of how you are getting heat with a water-cooled conversion. Here in New England, some of the nicest driving days are Spring & Fall when it can get a bit chilly after dark. Defog/defrost is the bigger issue, though.