Starter Binding, Looking for advice to prevent any more damage |
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Starter Binding, Looking for advice to prevent any more damage |
nwm5709 |
Apr 24 2018, 02:40 PM
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#1
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: 7-January 16 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 19,536 Region Association: South East States |
I have a ’74 2.0 side shift that I have never had any issues cranking until now. I was experiencing some separate starting issues and hesitation while driving that I thought had to do with the ignition system, so I replaced the plugs, wires and points. When I went to start up to set the dwell and timing, I heard a grinding I had never heard before and the engine seemed like it had binded up. Afraid that something happened to the engine itself, I removed all the spark plugs, put the car in 5th, raised the rear wheel and was able to turn over the engine freely. After putting everything back together it did it again (this time with a remote starter switch from the rear of the car). It kept happening, and seemed like it was only binding up with the key in the ignition and turned to on (and while cranking the car via the actual ignition switch). It seemed to crank fine while the car was off.
I pulled the starter last night to find as expected that the starter gear was a little chewed up, but more disappointed to see the wear on the flywheel. My question is, what caused this and how do I proceed from here? Is there anyway I can get a newer (better) starter that won’t chew up the flywheel ring gear? Definitely hoping I can continue driving without replacing the flywheel anytime soon (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Photos are below |
TheCabinetmaker |
Apr 24 2018, 03:31 PM
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#2
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,300 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
Sounds like the solenoid hung up. Verify that the gear pops out and spins with a battery charger or jumper cables
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VaccaRabite |
Apr 26 2018, 05:56 AM
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#3
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,444 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Yeah, the nose is either not engaging fully or not retracting fully.
Flywheel should be fine, but replace the starter. Zach |
Dr Evil |
Apr 26 2018, 09:37 AM
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#4
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Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,999 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Its been a while since I needed to replace one of these, but the HiTorque ones were readily available and less expensive than some stock units. Never had an issue with them. Beware that your FLAPS will often try to sell you a bus started and the nose is different and it wont work. Too bad as they are cheap. If you are handy, you may pull the bendix on that one and see if you can deduce why it was hanging up and rectify it. That started looks pretty fresh. Any warrantee?
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nwm5709 |
Apr 27 2018, 12:13 PM
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#5
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: 7-January 16 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 19,536 Region Association: South East States |
Sounds like the solenoid hung up. Verify that the gear pops out and spins with a battery charger or jumper cables Did that last night and it verified it worked fine. Made me realize something though, the starter may have been wired up wrong. It had 3 red wires on the large post, and a white wire on the spade terminal. The white was hot with the ignition on, but the manual says it should the a yellow wire. Looks like the white wire is for an "Aux air valve", but isn't hooked up to anything (I have carbs). Maybe the wrong wire to the starter was causing it to hang up? |
Dr Evil |
Apr 27 2018, 12:21 PM
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#6
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Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,999 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
If it is always hot when the key is on, then the wire is wrong/has another wire mated to it. The Starter wire is only hot with key in START position. After then, when key in RUN position it is no longer energized. If there is still power to is in RUN, then your starter will stay engaged. This would sound awful.
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nwm5709 |
Apr 27 2018, 12:24 PM
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#7
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: 7-January 16 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 19,536 Region Association: South East States |
If it is always hot when the key is on, then the wire is wrong/has another wire mated to it. The Starter wire is only hot with key in START position. After then, when key in RUN position it is no longer energized. If there is still power to is in RUN, then your starter will stay engaged. This would sound awful. It certainly did sound awful! But I was driving for a year or so without the problem so something had to change recently. I'll get a buddy to help me check the voltage with and without the ignition in the start position. Thanks |
wndsrfr |
Apr 28 2018, 05:33 AM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,429 Joined: 30-April 09 From: Rescue, Virginia Member No.: 10,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
If it is always hot when the key is on, then the wire is wrong/has another wire mated to it. The Starter wire is only hot with key in START position. After then, when key in RUN position it is no longer energized. If there is still power to is in RUN, then your starter will stay engaged. This would sound awful. It certainly did sound awful! But I was driving for a year or so without the problem so something had to change recently. I'll get a buddy to help me check the voltage with and without the ignition in the start position. Thanks This sounds like the key switch is possibly failing to provide consistent power...while you're in there you should add a relay....search for "Ford solenoid" or "hot start" to find how to wire it up... I'm off of the hi torque starters after two chewed up flywheel...the Bosch SR68X is oem and is much beefier...shaft diameter much larger than the small hi torque ones. |
r_towle |
Apr 29 2018, 06:56 AM
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#9
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
Right next to the shifter, inside the car, you can get to the wiring that comes from the ignition switch to the starter.
Using a sewing needle you can penetrate the yellow wire while sitting in the car, and use a volt meter to check and verify voltage. Yellow is a trigger wire. It should only have power when the key is in the start position. Wiggle the key around while the car is running and watch the volt meter. It could be a sticky and dying ignition switch. |
r_towle |
Apr 29 2018, 07:02 AM
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#10
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
Oh, depending upon year, the yellow wire goes under the passenger seat to a safety relay. This is 40 years old now. Most, if not everyone, will pull the yellow wires out of this relay and wire them together.
I think a double male spade connector works for this, and tape it up to keep it from grounding out. The test at the shifter shows the ignition switch is good/bad The same test at the starter could point to that relay. Remove the passenger seat, it’s all you will see there. Lots of grounds, seat belts , seat, door etc. Clean up everything, jumper the yellow ones together, |
brant |
Apr 29 2018, 09:11 AM
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#11
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,624 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
The early hi torque cheap starter’s worked fine. At some point they changed the nose cone and they no longer fully engaged and thus caused flywheel damage as they throw the bendex too deep and run on half of the flywheel teeth
You can hold a high toque up to a correct starter and easily see this A spacer will solve this problem at the mounting face But most people figure this out after they destroy the flywheel |
nwm5709 |
May 7 2018, 07:47 AM
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#12
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: 7-January 16 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 19,536 Region Association: South East States |
OK so I tested the starter and wiring and found everything seemed to work as I'd expect. I can tell someone has messed with the wiring before because not everything matches the manual, but it still seems to operate as it should. The white wire that was originally plugged into the starter runs directly from the ignition switch and gets 12volts only when cranking (the wire is not part of the original wiring harness. seems to be added by PO).
Setting up the Starter with wiring outside of the car, I verified the solenoid engaged, gear spun, and then disengaged by cranking it with the ignition switch. Put it back in the car and immediately grinded and bound up. I couldn't turn the engine (with one wheel off the ground) until I pulled the starter. I noticed that this starter I pulled from the car is an SR10 which I don't see mentioned anywhere here on the site. So I've ordered a new SR17x starter to see if that solves it. I don't know what else it could be. |
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