How Hard is it?, Carbs that is Options

[mxdude914]

How hard is it to install carbs, and what carbs to get on a stock 2 liter?

[Joe Ricard]

With all the pieces it's a piece of cake. But on a stock motor I ask Why????
Your FI is better.
but if you must 40 IDF's 28 venturis .50 idle and 130 main gas 180 air correction should be a good startng place. CB linkage K&N filters.

[flesburg]

If you rebuild a 2.0 engine, and keep it reasonably stock, (euro pistons) you will make more horsepower and have a much more reliable, easier starting, better running engine if you keep the stock fi. The factory switched to fi for a REASON! IF however you are going to oversize the thing and go with a wild cam, then you will have to put on carbs, and then if you hot rod it much, it will go bang.

In the long run, convert to a 3.0 or 3.2 L 6 cyl. For 10,000 to 15,000 you will have a car that will run with the newest corvettes.

You might end up with half that much in a 150 HP 4 cyl, and it will still go bang!

[Joe Ricard]

QUOTE (flesburg @ Jun 8 2005, 05:10 AM)

If you rebuild a 2.0 engine, and keep it reasonably stock, (euro pistons) you will make more horsepower and have a much more reliable, easier starting, better running engine if you keep the stock fi. The factory switched to fi for a REASON! IF however you are going to oversize the thing and go with a wild cam, then you will have to put on carbs, and then if you hot rod it much, it will go bang. In the long run, convert to a 3.0 or 3.2 L 6 cyl. For 10,000 to 15,000 you will have a car that will run with the newest corvettes. You might end up with half that much in a 150 HP 4 cyl, and it will still go bang!

Well I run the living piss out of my 4 banger. it only goes BWWHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Yes it is hot rodded pretty good. So I don't think that is a valid reason to not go to to a big 4.
If you can't drive your car to the limit now why get more more HP? Oh wait maybe you can drive your car to 10 / 10ths all the time. come one down here and show me how. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

[mxdude914]

Im not doin it for power, i was goin to sell my car because it has fi problems that i just dont know how to fix, so to eliminate all that i am going with carbs. Sound reasonable? Also where is the best place to pick up a complete kit with everthing there.

[nebreitling]

not really, no. a new carb kit will run you $800+. think you can fix your djet for that?

[flesburg]

Joe is right, I should not editorialize about 4 cyl high HP engines.

But, after you fool around with a 2 L with carbs and jets and distributors and gaskets, and etc., and then you go to an autocross, and a guy with a 2.0 L engine with factory fi (he did have euro p&c) is just plain making more power than you are.....

Then you put your engine back to stock form (all new plugs, wires, points, fileters etc).... and it is just as fast or faster than it was on carbs,

I question why anyone wants to convert to carbs...unless you are trying to make 120+HP.

And as Joe said, how many people have the skills to drive a stock 2.0 L at 100%? Not many, is my guess.

[mxdude914]

See the thing is it will drive for a while and then shut off and i have to let it cool down before i can drive it again. And ive talked to manypeople and they have all given me diff. answers on what it could be. I just figured carbs would be a better bet. How much would a completely new djet system or a comparable fi system run, including new injectors because i think mine may be bad.

[MarkG]

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jun 8 2005, 08:42 AM)

not really, no. a new carb kit will run you $800+. think you can fix your djet for that?

To fix my '76 D-jet costs so far:

New Throttle body: $395.00
4 New injectors: $300.00
Rebuilt MPS: $175.00
New Fuel pump: $125.00
New CHT: $20.00
New FI trigger points $135.00
New preasure rugulator: $28.00
new hoses/boots: $20.00+
new TPS $135.00
plus stuff I've forgotten.....$xxxx

Total: $1333.00+

runs great, except for a slight wandering idle and very rich condition until fully warmed up......I like FI and wanted as close to 100% reliability as I could get without dropping another $2K plus on New ECU and New MPS....

[mxdude914]

See i am in high school so i dont have 1400$$ to throw at a car, i just need it to drive so i have a ride to jobs, and school. Would carbs be sufficient for my needs, not looking for any extra power.

[Bleyseng]

QUOTE (mxdude914 @ Jun 8 2005, 09:49 AM)

See the thing is it will drive for a while and then shut off and i have to let it cool down before i can drive it again. And ive talked to manypeople and they have all given me diff. answers on what it could be. I just figured carbs would be a better bet. How much would a completely new djet system or a comparable fi system run, including new injectors because i think mine may be bad.

Is it due to the Djet or a hot start problem due to vapor lock?
A bad CHT can cause problems at hot start too as it will set the starting mix too rich.


What is with the new Throttle body? I have never heard of someone buying one of those? a rebushed one is nice though.

The rest of the parts listed by MarkG can be sourced good used or atleast checked for working condition.

[mxdude914]

It is not that it is not starting because it is to rich or anything like that it is because the Fuel pump wont turn on.

[nebreitling]

sure, if you just need transportation, then throw a single solex carb on the thing and run it. it will get you to school and work. but unless you need to redo your whole injection (unlikely), it be easier to fix your djet

[Bleyseng]

Fuel pump won't turn on sounds like a relay problem in the relay box or bad fuse in the relay box.
I had this problem when I first went back to FI, removing the carbs. The PO had put carbs on because they couldn't/wouldn't figure out the problem. Took me a month of working on it nights to finally rip out the relay board. Turned it over to discover it had a bad short from the heater booster cooking the relay board. Got a relay board and I have had only one problem in 6 years (CHT went out).

Bad grounds are also a EFI gremlin. Clean them all including the fuel pump wires

[lapuwali]

Does it start fine and run fine, then just die? Does is act "funny" before it dies, like bucking, or does it just stall? Does it only stall at idle, or while you're driving? It won't start right away, but only after awhile? How long?

The list of common D-Jet replacement parts is pretty small, and only the MPS is expensive. Unless it runs like crap when it runs, it's not the MPS. I'll bet this problem could be fixed for under $200, and likely under $100. A set of Webers is going to run you a minimum of $500.

[mxdude914]

It runs spectacular untill it dies, then i just have to wait tilll the car cools down and then the fuel pump will work wonders again. I just put a check in the mail to get a fuel pump from root_werks. Hopefully that will fix it. Starts fine runs fine. So im just thinking its the fp.

[mxdude914]

Also btw whats the stock 0-60 time on a stock 2.0. Mine seems a little quicker than others ive seen.wondering if its bored out.

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (mxdude914 @ Jun 8 2005, 10:38 AM)

It runs spectacular untill it dies, then i just have to wait tilll the car cools down and then the fuel pump will work wonders again. I just put a check in the mail to get a fuel pump from root_werks. Hopefully that will fix it. Starts fine runs fine. So im just thinking its the fp.

i'm with geoff. sounds like the fuel pump relay is going bad, not schnugg in the socket or pins corroded.

have you tried another relay yet? make sure it fits snug (you can pry the pins a bit, carefully) and all the contacts are clean ...

also, what condition is your relay board in? have you looked at the underside? is the tar still soft or is it all cracked and the circuits are exposed?

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) Andy

PS: FI fuel pumps are usually "all or nothing" ... they normally don't just stop and then start working fine again ...

[bperry]

Just another data point.
The current price for a dual 40 IDF kit from CB is now $1000 (ouch!)
And that is *not* everything that you need for the full conversion.
The single carb kits are cheaper.

You can go the single carb route and it does tend to be
more "reliable" than an ailing D-jet system, i.e. fewer times
stranded, but... it is not very fun to drive.
There is no comparison in the driving experience between
the single carb setup and the working d-jet.

Not that I'm favoring carbs but
what I've seen is that for people that don't really
understand either Carbs, or FI, very well, it is easier to get Carbs
limping along. That is because many of the failures in the FI system
result in a non-driveable car but many of the carb failures
result in poorly running yet driveable car.
So when a car is used for a daily driver, poorly running yet
driveable beats non driveable.

I think the main issue is using a 30+ year old car for a daily
driver. To do so with realiablity, means maintaining it to a very high level.
To do this, probably means having to work on it yourself and
understand how to repair it.

I think at this point in time, if a FI system is still kind of working,
it is going to be cheaper to fix the FI than convert over
to dual carbs. Single carbs might be cheaper. In either case,
the FI will be a much better driving experience.


--- bill

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jun 8 2005, 09:46 AM)

QUOTE (mxdude914 @ Jun 8 2005, 10:38 AM) It runs spectacular untill it dies, then i just have to wait tilll the car cools down and then the fuel pump will work wonders again. I just put a check in the mail to get a fuel pump from root_werks. Hopefully that will fix it. Starts fine runs fine. So im just thinking its the fp. i'm with geoff. sounds like the fuel pump relay is going bad, not schnugg in the socket or pins corroded. have you tried another relay yet? make sure it fits snug (you can pry the pins a bit, carefully) and all the contacts are clean ... also, what condition is your relay board in? have you looked at the underside? is the tar still soft or is it all cracked and the circuits are exposed? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) Andy PS: FI fuel pumps are usually "all or nothing" ... they normally don't just stop and then start working fine again ...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

Try this: run a 14g wire from the + post on the coil to the + post on the fuel pump, and run another 14g wire from the - post on the fuel pump to a good ground. This will make the fuel pump run the entire time you have the key on. If this makes the problem go away, it's something in the relay board, or the relay itself.