Another 2056 rebuild thread, It's Alive! Options

[bbrock]

Okie dokie, I'm going to ask another dumb question. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tooth.gif) I need to read Jake's write-up but I did read this on on the Samba that looks to be similar to what you are doing here, but last week found several youtubes and other tutorials on setting VW valve geometry that focus on applying some kind of dye to the valve stem and then adjusting the pushrod length until the swipe pattern was centered on the stem. Looked pretty simple but this seems way different. Does this method not apply to type 4? Here's an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRGFHKYF7Cw

[Geezer914]

I don't see how this would work using swivel feet adjusters.

[McMark]

then adjusting the pushrod length until the swipe pattern was centered on the stem....Does this method not apply to type 4?

You can do it that way. Different approaches to the same process. But Geezer is right, you'd have to swap in a normal adjuster to use the 'wipe' method and only install the swivel adjuster once you're done.

[nditiz1]

Made some more progress tonight.

Messed around with the adjustable PR on the exhaust valve. After several different tries I put in a stock PR (or so I thought) it came out to .402 lift. I checked the valve geometry and it looks decent. I think I may be ok with the setup I have. It was on the car before and seemed to work. Or it didn't and that's why the 40 year old valve gave out. I decided to measure the stock PRs I took out of the motor and none seem to add up to what I believed was stock length. Maybe they are close enough? Or they had been slightly machined. They range from 27.05cm to 27.07cm. None never measure to 27.1cm. Anyone else experience this on there stock setup ? Maybe factory spec were "close enough" or the PO builder did some cutting. I threw a PR in the intake side of the same cylinder I was working on and got a higher value than I thought to be the total lift .437. My goal was .425. The .437 is still in the acceptable 5% range so I might just leave it as is. Also, the geometry on that one looked pretty good as well. I need to double check the length of that one and see if by chance on of the other "stock" PR measures just slightly under. This would give me a slightly better angle and possibly even lower the lift. I will double check with an adjustable PR of the same length.

Oh and just for shits I think I will use a dry erase marker on the valve tip and throw on the stock adjuster just to see the sweep.

[Valy]

Your pushrods are fine.

[Valy]

BTW, looking at the picture where you measure the valve travel I noticed that the gauge doesn't look perfectly perpendicular to the valve head. Your readings will be off in that case.

[nditiz1]

Thanks Valy. I keep changing that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I either bump it or I thought I had it right and then look from a different angle and its not perfect.

[nditiz1]

Ok so I used the stock adjusters and just wanted to check the sweep geometry with the stock PRs. Here is how they look. I could tell from the swivel adjusters it was hitting slighty at an angle at half lift. I think I'm ok with how this setup will work. What do the experts think? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Intake
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Exhaust
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[VaccaRabite]

I think that you are over-thinking it.

Unless your swivel and stock asdjusters are exactly the same length this comparison is not worth much.

Measure max lift and make sure you are within 5% (IIRC its 5%, its been a while, but maybe 15%) of theoretical lift and that the lifter at 1/2 lift is visually straight and inline with the valve stem.

All your valves should end up with roughly the same lift. That's it.

Zach

[nditiz1]

I think that you are over-thinking it.

Unless your swivel and stock asdjusters are exactly the same length this comparison is not worth much.

Measure max lift and make sure you are within 5% (IIRC its 5%, its been a while, but maybe 15%) of theoretical lift and that the lifter at 1/2 lift is visually straight and inline with the valve stem.

All your valves should end up with roughly the same lift. That's it.

Zach

Well the distance between the rocker edge and the top of the valve would be the same as the PR length is unchanged. Whether it is swivel or stock it should be the same geometry. This test was just to ensure what my eye was seeing is same as what was happening. I could see when I adjusted the PR and made the PR shorter it would increase the distance between rocker edge and valve top. This made it a better angle, but caused the lift to be lessened. This seems to be the happy medium of angle and lift. I am within the 5% lift on both Intake and Exhaust. Unfortunately my valves are not lifting the same as the Cam is some older wierd cam that has a valve lift of .315 Exhaust and .326 Intake.

[McMark]

Looks good in pictures. The intake is better than the exhaust. You can have different lengths in the same motor.

And yeah, the adjuster won't make a difference. There's only two real adjustments: 1) pushrod length 2)spacers under the rocker shafts. The adjuster just takes out slack. Its not an adjustment -- it's permanently 0.006" or zero lash (depending on your pushrods) and never changes.

If you think you're going to end up using aluminum pushrods (stock) make sure you're looking at the valve/adjuster geometry WITH the 0.006" gap.

[nditiz1]

Just a minor update -

Installed the other head (1,2) went to town on setting the correct geometry.

I was able to determine that I can use close to stock length/stock length for the exhaust (270.50mm) This was however with the lash set to 0. I will need to set the correct lash .006/.008 to see if the geometry still holds true. For the intake I determined that 269.50 mm was the correct number for lift and angle. So I will have 4 of my PRs milled down by about 1mm.

I also installed the HD 8mm stud kit. Some of the rocker shaft holes are a very tight fit so I will need to slightly true them. For the one stud in each head I used some 518 locktite to ensure it would not leak behind it (The way the head was cast has a slight reveal at the base which could allow for a leak, believe this is only on Chinese AA heads)

[nditiz1]

OK! haven't made any posts lately, but have made great progress. I managed to get the intake pushrods cut to the correct length. Since the exhaust lift is only slightly more than stock (.409) I was able to use the stock pushrods. The geometry still looked good. I got the everything buttoned up and rechecked the intake geometry and it looked good. With using the aluminum PRs I had to set the valve lash (.006/.008) so I lost a little lift, but they were still in the acceptable 5%. I may actually readjust the exhaust ones to .006 as I have seen with most mild cams. On to work on the oil pump. I had a Melling that needed to be removed - it was working, but a poor choice as it is steel. I got a Schadek 30mm from Herb on here (forgot handle) and while I think it is too big McMark runs them with great success (knows more than I (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) and I have a gauge hooked up to see if the pressure will overload the relief. As long as it doesn't I will rock it. I put all the engine tin on and the fan shroud. I hit a snag with the alternator boot as I was unsure how it came off and ripped it. I sourced another one from Siagon71 (Bob). He is a cool guy and took me for a ride in his sweet 74 with a 2056 (FI). It ran good and pulled strong, its also a daily so that's even sweeter. Got all the heater system installed and had one hell of a time getting the heat exchangers back on - fitment very tight. McMark hooked me up with some nice 12mm (I think) locking copper nuts. I applied generous amounts of copper anitseize (good info from Len). After the engine was pretty much good to go I installed the clutch that was one there before as everyone said it still looked new. Mated that to my newly rebuilt tranny (Dr. Evil VA Clinic). The PO had built a nice little engine cart which I used to roll it over to the car. Success! Got the motor and Tranny bolted back up. Double checked all the electrical as well as installed my new dual post oil pressure switch hooked up to a grease gun hose out of the stock port. Once I was sure everything was in place I test fired the engine to try and build up oil pressure like Raby did in his rebuild video. Maybe I didn't give it enough time or maybe my plugs and carbs needed to be on, in any case I ventured on excited that it turned over. Reconnected the drive shafts to the tranny, installed the plugs, wires, and 123 distributor. Got the green light static timing set correctly. Next onto the Carbs. Sidenote* before installing the engine I made sure to run the fuel pump and rid the tank and lines of the November gas, almost 5 gallons. I had put the carbs away empty and dry with running brake cleaner through all the ports so I knew they were good. Last night I installed them and started putting the Tangerine Racing linkage back into place. With the end in sight I had to wait to attach the clutch cable, throttle, speedo and heater controls. Today gave me a few hours to put some fresh 93 octane in, hook up the fuel lines, muffler and triple check everything for its first start up. I primed the carbs and saw fuel so i knew the chambers were full. Triple checked all connections before the first fire up. SHES ALIVEEEEEE!!!!! She needed a little more priming, but then stayed running. I coaxed it along with a few bumps of throttle, but then it stayed running. I got a little worried when I started hearing some loud tapping sounds coming from both sides, like loud valve tapping. I shut it off and was going to check the valves but wanted to look things over one more time while running. I started her back up and the noise was present. I installed a screw on the passenger carb since the 123 doesn't use vaccuum, well you don't have to anyway. I bumped the throttle one more time before shutting it off and the noise died down. I did it again and it completely went away. I can only assume the oil had not gotten into all the passage ways. I let it idle for about 20 mins. My oil pressure started around 60 and by the end was around 25. Not sure if these numbers are too high. I think driving is more of what I need to check. The CHT did show as high as 300 on cyl 3. Can't remember if this is normal either for idle. I'll post the question for the experts. Whew that was a big update! Time for some beers and plan out the final items to get her driving again. Thanks for everyones help on here! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

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[saigon71]

Congrats on getting her fired up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[McMark]

That's a milestone! Nice job. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smiley_notworthy.gif)