Flasher relay issue, Electrical issue with relay Options

[gfrewin]

Hello,
I'm a new 914 owner and also new to this forum and hoping someone can help steer me in the right direction.

Over the winter I restored the dash on my 1972 914-4 and removed the gauges. Before I put the gauges back in I installed a retrosound radio and when I tested it I also tested the lights, 4-way flashers and turn signals and all was fine.

When I put it all back together a couple of days ago and went to start it, the relay was active when I turn the key to the on position. Not activating the exterior lights but the heat warning lights flash in the fuel gauge. When I pull the hazard switch on, the relay stops. It also stops when the car is actually running. When I try to use the turn signals it blows a fuse.

I've triple checked the wiring of the gauges and all looks correct. I'm considering replacing the relay but I wanted to see if anyone had any insight before I start throwing parts at the problem.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Gregg.

[Mike Bellis]

Most likely the radio installation is the culprit. The 914 does not have an accessory wire so most radios are wired hot all the time. If not, you risk burning your points or electronic ignition.

[gfrewin]

Most likely the radio installation is the culprit. The 914 does not have an accessory wire so most radios are wired hot all the time. If not, you risk burning your points or electronic ignition.

Thanks Mike. the PO had a radio in the car and I followed his wiring for the new one. I also did disconnect the radio harness during my troubleshooting and it was still doing it.

[914Toy]

I have similar problems - trouble shooting took me to turn signal/emergency flasher relay switch. Switch board is corroded see pic. Have a new one on order from Bruce at Pelican.

[gfrewin]

I have similar problems - trouble shooting took me to turn signal/emergency flasher relay switch. Switch board is corroded see pic. Have a new one on order from Bruce at Pelican.

Thanks! Every time I read more I get led to that conclusion. Can you tell me the symptoms you had? Also, why buy the board instead of a new relay?

[914Toy]

I have similar problems - trouble shooting took me to turn signal/emergency flasher relay switch. Switch board is corroded see pic. Have a new one on order from Bruce at Pelican.

Thanks! Every time I read more I get led to that conclusion. Can you tell me the symptoms you had? Also, why buy the board instead of a new relay?

First the passenger side turn signal was dim and the driver side signal was lighting up dimly with it. Then the passenger lights would light once and then stop lighting. Finally I tried the emergency flasher which blew the fuse! I have bought a replacement relay complete not the board.

[gfrewin]

I have similar problems - trouble shooting took me to turn signal/emergency flasher relay switch. Switch board is corroded see pic. Have a new one on order from Bruce at Pelican.

Thanks! Every time I read more I get led to that conclusion. Can you tell me the symptoms you had? Also, why buy the board instead of a new relay?

First the passenger side turn signal was dim and the driver side signal was lighting up dimly with it. Then the passenger lights would light once and then stop lighting. Finally I tried the emergency flasher which blew the fuse! I have bought a replacement relay complete not the board.

Thanks very much. I just ordered a new relay as well. I'll let you know if that's the culprit.

[Mike Bellis]

The headlights lighting up dim would be an indication of a disconnected ground. When some grounds are disconnected, some circuits will reverse current flow and do wonky things.

Check all the grounds located above the fuse panel.

[malcolm2]

Even if it is not a relay problem, buying a new relay could cause a problem. I bought one online and it had trouble. Our member SPOKE jumped in to explain and recommend buying a relay that he modifies to work with LED stuff. The aftermarket relays have trouble with low amp lites. Mine would buzz vs blink. It worked but was not right.

He is the expert, I am dangerous with electricity and have a bad memory.

Maybe he will chime in, or you should find a post from him and link in his signature. Other cool stuff to buy. He makes LED modules that need his relay.

[malcolm2]

Have a new one on order from Bruce at Pelican.

You should read thru my post about my flasher relay issues. Bought a Wheryle (sp?) brand and it worked but not correctly. I thought I was doing good buying a German part. I returned mine and bought one from SPOKE.

MY POST

The aftermarket relays are so bad, and so widely used, people don't even realize that the brake light is supposed to flash and click when the hand brake is pulled.

Or that silver dot tachs with r & L indicator lights are supposed to blink in one direction.

[gfrewin]

The headlights lighting up dim would be an indication of a disconnected ground. When some grounds are disconnected, some circuits will reverse current flow and do wonky things.

Check all the grounds located above the fuse panel.

Thanks Mike. My first thought was it might be a ground issue. Forgive my ignorance but how would I chase all the grounds? Just check the connection points at the lights, radio etc?

[gfrewin]

Have a new one on order from Bruce at Pelican.

You should read thru my post about my flasher relay issues. Bought a Wheryle (sp?) brand and it worked but not correctly. I thought I was doing good buying a German part. I returned mine and bought one from SPOKE.

MY POST

The aftermarket relays are so bad, and so widely used, people don't even realize that the brake light is supposed to flash and click when the hand brake is pulled.

Or that silver dot tachs with r & L indicator lights are supposed to blink in one direction.

Thanks, that's good info! I read your post and sounds like SPOKE's relay is the way to go for sure. I'm still chasing the issue on multiple fronts but I appreciate the direction!

[Spoke]

Over the winter I restored the dash on my 1972 914-4 and removed the gauges. Before I put the gauges back in I installed a retrosound radio and when I tested it I also tested the lights, 4-way flashers and turn signals and all was fine.

When I put it all back together a couple of days ago and went to start it, the relay was active when I turn the key to the on position. Not activating the exterior lights but the heat warning lights flash in the fuel gauge. When I pull the hazard switch on, the relay stops. It also stops when the car is actually running. When I try to use the turn signals it blows a fuse.

I've triple checked the wiring of the gauges and all looks correct. I'm considering replacing the relay but I wanted to see if anyone had any insight before I start throwing parts at the problem.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Gregg.

If everything worked before you put it all back together, it seems that would point to some wiring issue. Maybe a ground as suggested is not making good contact or when stuffing everything back into place some wires were crossed.

There's a lot of wires in close proximity to each other and there's a chance a couple of wires are crossed.

I doubt a bad flasher relay would cause a fuse to blow. It could happen but when you say "the relay was active when I turn the key to the on position" would indicate there is a load on the relay where there should be no load.

The "load" would be the exterior lights. Notice below that all lights are connected to pin 49A of the flasher relay in the top right. But there are switches (4-way, turnsignal, brake) which are open thus no load with all switches off. This why I think there are some wires crossed around the relay.

If it were me, I'd try to get back to the point where everything worked before; disconnect battery NEG, drop the fuse panel; inspect the wires around the flasher relay. When all wires are stable, connect the battery NEG (don't have to tighten it) and try testing again.

[Mike Bellis]

The headlights lighting up dim would be an indication of a disconnected ground. When some grounds are disconnected, some circuits will reverse current flow and do wonky things.

Check all the grounds located above the fuse panel.

Thanks Mike. My first thought was it might be a ground issue. Forgive my ignorance but how would I chase all the grounds? Just check the connection points at the lights, radio etc?

There is a ground block with male spades above the fuse panel. remove the two screws and lower it down. Be very careful or disconnect the battery first. Some times while removing the panel, a hot terminal can touch the metal dash.

There are grounds behind each headlight in the trunk. Another near the battery, perhaps a couple more locations. There is a picture somewhere showing all the locations.

Here it is...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-10805-1475794434.jpg)

[gfrewin]

The headlights lighting up dim would be an indication of a disconnected ground. When some grounds are disconnected, some circuits will reverse current flow and do wonky things.

Check all the grounds located above the fuse panel.

Thanks Mike. My first thought was it might be a ground issue. Forgive my ignorance but how would I chase all the grounds? Just check the connection points at the lights, radio etc?

There is a ground block with male spades above the fuse panel. remove the two screws and lower it down. Be very careful or disconnect the battery first. Some times while removing the panel, a hot terminal can touch the metal dash.

There are grounds behind each headlight in the trunk. Another near the battery, perhaps a couple more locations. There is a picture somewhere showing all the locations.

Here it is...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-10805-1475794434.jpg)

Mike, thank you so much for this! I will take a look at this over the weekend and keep you posted. I really appreciate all of everyone's help.

[914Toy]

A new flasher relay switch, and removing miner corrosion from the front bulb contact connection has fixed all my problems (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[gfrewin]

So, I've managed to make some progress. While I haven't solved all the problems, after cleaning the contacts on the right turn signal light, the 4-way flashers are now functioning normally. Still have the flasher coming on when the key is "on" but moving forward.