Starting issue, Click and no start -intermittent Options

[North Coast Jim]

Car has been back together now for 10 months. In heated storage all this past winter. I've put approx. 1K miles on it in that time with zero issues.

Since back on the road this Spring I've put 400 miles on it along with a trip to Mid-Ohio for the IMSA race. In that time I've had 2 instances of a no start. Turning the key produces a click in the area of the starter and the GEN and OIL pressure lights dim dramatically. Waiting and continued trying will produce a normal start. On the second no start I did cycle the headlights. All components are NEW. Ignition switch, Bosch type, Starter, along with the Bowlsly supplied GEN/Start cable. New starter positive cable along with an Optima red top battery. After start the car runs fine and the Gen produces normal voltage output (by gauge not actually measured). As for it being a hot start issue the first instance was after a 35 mile run when I stopped for gas. The second instance was after a 15 mile run but the car sat for over an hour. Outside air temp was 65 degrees. So I think we can rule that out.

Fuel pump has been relocated to under the front gravel pan. Car is Weber carb'd now. New rebuilt engine 2.

This morning I did climb under the car and all connections are tight. The starter positive cable, the red wire and the yellow wire. No corrosion - there new.

Any ideas where to start ??

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

make sure that the battery is charging at 13.6 and if so, next time it will not turn over but just click, short between the big bolt and the male spade on the solenoid with a screwdriver (em brake pulled and in neutral) and if the car turns over add a hot start kit from bosch wr1 Also if a 74 early 75 make sure that the big yellow and yellow with red under the pass seat are cleanly and firmly connected

Car has been back together now for 10 months. In heated storage all this past winter. I've put approx. 1K miles on it in that time with zero issues.

Since back on the road this Spring I've put 400 miles on it along with a trip to Mid-Ohio for the IMSA race. In that time I've had 2 instances of a no start. Turning the key produces a click in the area of the starter and the GEN and OIL pressure lights dim dramatically. Waiting and continued trying will produce a normal start. On the second no start I did cycle the headlights. All components are NEW. Ignition switch, Bosch type, Starter, along with the Bowlsly supplied GEN/Start cable. New starter positive cable along with an Optima red top battery. After start the car runs fine and the Gen produces normal voltage output (by gauge not actually measured). As for it being a hot start issue the first instance was after a 35 mile run when I stopped for gas. The second instance was after a 15 mile run but the car sat for over an hour. Outside air temp was 65 degrees. So I think we can rule that out.

Fuel pump has been relocated to under the front gravel pan. Car is Weber carb'd now. New rebuilt engine 2.

This morning I did climb under the car and all connections are tight. The starter positive cable, the red wire and the yellow wire. No corrosion - there new.

Any ideas where to start ??

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Mark Henry]

Don't use the wimpy bosch horn relay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The thread for the ford solenoid fix is in my signature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Rand]

The most frequent cause of a "click" without crank on any car is a dirty battery terminal. Use the generic flaps tool to clean the battery posts and insides of the cable connectors. Takes a couple minutes, needed to be done anyway, and just might fix it.

[North Coast Jim]

The battery attachment end of the new +12 volt starting cable was enlarged to ensure a full depth fit to the Optima Red top battery post. Didn't think that was it but now it at least looks right. Also looked at the shunted yellow wire connection under the passenger seat. All was well. As all parts are new I didn't think corrosion was an issue so haven't touched any other points, grounds or otherwise. I did install the Ford solenoid fix per Mark Henry's instructions. Can't hurt. Car started fine (after I moved the 12V+key wire to the other terminal). Time will tell if I've solved the problem.

Will keep you posted. Thanks all for the replies. Had a fun run around the island today after this install. Can't get enough of this car.

[Spoke]

The most frequent cause of a "click" without crank on any car is a dirty battery terminal.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I had the same issue. Start. Start. Start. Click. Start. Starts were ok the the clicks seemed like the battery died. Then it would start normally.

Turned out to be oxidation on the battery terminals. Cleaned the terminals and battery posts and never had a problem after that.

[GeorgeRud]

I’d agree with Mark to install a Ford starter solenoid and also clean terminals and use dielectric grease to waterproof the connections.

[Rand]

I’d agree with Mark to install a Ford starter solenoid and also clean terminals and use dielectric grease to waterproof the connections.

I just hate to see people applying band aids before taking care of what's already there. Clean the terminals/grounds first. It's free, will give you peace of mind, and may be the answer. The Ford solenoid is a nice option that takes load off the starter switch, but it's not the first thing to do. Fix what is wrong first. Remember, the starter solenoid IS a solenoid. Your starter circuit only engages the bendix, it doesn't crank the starter. The starter gets its power directly from the big cable that's already there direct to the battery.

[rick 918-S]

I am not a believer in the hot start gizmo. Porsche didn't install it. These cars have started as built for years and years. I'm of the camp that a guy should just fix the real problem not add a Rube Goldberg device.

Before you get too concerned and start added stuff the car never had to fix a problem you haven't really discovered check the battery. If the battery is good do the Ed test. Take a set of "good" jumper cables, connect the positive to the battery and post on the starter. Do the same with the ground. If it starts change the cables. I chased a no start, slow crank issue for a whole summer.

[TheCabinetmaker]

good time to post this. Im presently driving a 1990 Ford truck with said same solenoid. A few weeks ago I started the truck and the starter just kept turning after the truck started. I turned off the key and it just kept turning. I then had to jump out of the truck open the hood and pull the battery cable off to make it stop. The Ford solenoid failed and kept the Bendix engaged with the flywheel. I doubt seriously that I will be putting one of these on my 914 any time in the distant future.

[Mark Henry]

I am not a believer in the hot start gizmo. Porsche didn't install it. These cars have started as built for years and years. I'm of the camp that a guy should just fix the real problem not add a Rube Goldberg device.

Before you get too concerned and start added stuff the car never had to fix a problem you haven't really discovered check the battery. If the battery is good do the Ed test. Take a set of "good" jumper cables, connect the positive to the battery and post on the starter. Do the same with the ground. If it starts change the cables. I chased a no start, slow crank issue for a whole summer.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Porsche also never installed a water cooled V8 in a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

"I chased a no start, slow crank issue for a whole summer." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

If you don't like it don't do it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

If you do install it and don't like it, it comes off in seconds and hooks back up stock, because not a single thing (on the 914) was modified, hole drilled or wire cut.

good time to post this. Im presently driving a 1990 Ford truck with said same solenoid. A few weeks ago I started the truck and the starter just kept turning after the truck started. I turned off the key and it just kept turning. I then had to jump out of the truck open the hood and pull the battery cable off to make it stop. The Ford solenoid failed and kept the Bendix engaged with the flywheel. I doubt seriously that I will be putting one of these on my 914 any time in the distant future.

So you're saying it failed after 28 years with tens of thousands of 6-700 CCA start events?
What did you replace it with? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Some guys just don't like the thought of a Ford part on a 914.
BTW I'm still waiting for someone to send me their Ford Mustang based Rennshifter, I promise to dispose of it properly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)
Also everyone with KB pistons... hate to break it to you, they're slightly modified Ford pinto pistons.

[TheCabinetmaker]

Point is, it failed. In a bad way.

[Mblizzard]

Well I to spent much time chasing a start issue. Turned out to be switch on column. simple $15 fix. worked for a few months and then back. Another $15 switch = a few months.

Ordered $50 German switch from dealer no issues.

I currently run the hot start set up. I certainly don't think I am smarter than the German engineers that designed the starting system. But they never designed these cars to have a life span of 40+ years. Time takes its toll on high draw electrical systems and the resistance in the system increases making switches have to draw more current.

So while it is good advice to fix what is wrong first, it is also important to understand that these cars are well beyond their expected life spans and a bit of modern protection of the electrical systems is a good step to limit future problems.

A simple relay system which as Mark said is removable is pretty cheap insurance.
While I opted for a modern relay instead of the Ford, I have a Ford solenoid on the shelf just in case.

[Mark Henry]

Point is, it failed. In a bad way.

True, but any starter/solenoid could fail in this manner, even bosch.

Back in the early 2000's I let a world member convince me that the ford solenoid wasn't needed and yes it seemed to start fine for a couple of weeks. Took the wife on a 300 mile, full day road trip, 150 miles from home, filling at a gas station, turned the key and click. The wife had to push the 914 and we had to bump start the car for the rest of the trip.
I did nothing more than put the solenoid back on, I've never had the dreaded click since.

BTW exact same thing happened years before with our '78 westfalia, except that started at 1000 miles from home (Georgia) with my trailer and a bug on it, wife actually gave me shit for taking the solenoid off the 914.
Same thing happened with the wifes old '71SB, this has been a known issue and fix since the 60's.

Don't really care if some don't like this mod, my wife sure wasn't happy about having to push start a car in a busy station. My car starting every time I turn the key with a $20, thirty minute, no hack fix is totally worth it.

[TheCabinetmaker]

sorry Mark. Wasn't trying to argue with you. Just sharing my experience.

[Mark Henry]

sorry Mark. Wasn't trying to argue with you. Just sharing my experience.

I'm not mad at you, but my wife sure was pissed with me having to push a car/loaded westy at gas stations. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

It's best I don't get on her bad side. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Spoke]

I added a relay to drive the bendix in the starter to take the bendix load off of the ignition switch and to minimize the current loop for the bendix. I found a 40A relay at my FLAPS and used it instead of the Ford relay. The relay is mounted in the engine compartment to protect it from the environment in the wheel well.

[rick 918-S]

I am not a believer in the hot start gizmo. Porsche didn't install it. These cars have started as built for years and years. I'm of the camp that a guy should just fix the real problem not add a Rube Goldberg device.

Before you get too concerned and start added stuff the car never had to fix a problem you haven't really discovered check the battery. If the battery is good do the Ed test. Take a set of "good" jumper cables, connect the positive to the battery and post on the starter. Do the same with the ground. If it starts change the cables. I chased a no start, slow crank issue for a whole summer.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Porsche also never installed a water cooled V8 in a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

"I chased a no start, slow crank issue for a whole summer." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

If you don't like it don't do it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

If you do install it and don't like it, it comes off in seconds and hooks back up stock, because not a single thing (on the 914) was modified, hole drilled or wire cut.

good time to post this. Im presently driving a 1990 Ford truck with said same solenoid. A few weeks ago I started the truck and the starter just kept turning after the truck started. I turned off the key and it just kept turning. I then had to jump out of the truck open the hood and pull the battery cable off to make it stop. The Ford solenoid failed and kept the Bendix engaged with the flywheel. I doubt seriously that I will be putting one of these on my 914 any time in the distant future.

So you're saying it failed after 28 years with tens of thousands of 6-700 CCA start events?
What did you replace it with? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Some guys just don't like the thought of a Ford part on a 914.
BTW I'm still waiting for someone to send me their Ford Mustang based Rennshifter, I promise to dispose of it properly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)
Also everyone with KB pistons... hate to break it to you, they're slightly modified Ford pinto pistons.

I installed one on the car. Didn't fix the problem. My point is the Ed test found the real issue. I would have used the cable I replaced on a concour car it was that nice. After two starters and the Rube Goldberg device i was able to locate the real problem. If you don't like spending the time it takes to perform this simple test don't do to. It was just a suggestion for a guy having similar issues.