Drop 20-30 pounds with a battery?, Anyone running Lithium-Ion? Options

[horizontally-opposed]

Was watching the GT3 kids talk about lightweight batteries, and it feels like this tech has come into its own in the last couple of years, and is refined rather than cutting edge.

Anyway, the GT3 crowd seems pretty jazzed about these:
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/produ...tomotive/rs-30/

Steep, but then again, a set of tires can cost this much (or a lot more) and these batteries look to be cheap on a per-pound-saved basis...and the remove weight high up in the car. Having converted to a six, that's appealing. Also like the on-off feature as well as the built in jump start.

Thoughts? Alternatives? What are you using? How are they holding up, and what are the downsides?

[burton73]

Was watching the GT3 kids talk about lightweight batteries, and it feels like this tech has come into its own in the last couple of years, and is refined rather than cutting edge.

Anyway, the GT3 crowd seems pretty jazzed about these:
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/produ...tomotive/rs-30/

Steep, but then again, a set of tires can cost this much (or a lot more) and these batteries look to be cheap on a per-pound-saved basis...and the remove weight high up in the car. Having converted to a six, that's appealing. Also like the on-off feature as well as the built in jump start.

Thoughts? Alternatives? What are you using? How are they holding up, and what are the downsides?

$700.00 That is not a low cost unit

[thelogo]

Do they have those at kmart


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

[Rand]

Last time I brought this up I got some flack. But there's no question where things are going. Just be careful, because technologies change rapidly. Heck, most people won't know if LiPoly or Lithium Ion is the newer tech. And something better is around the corner.

Things are evolving. In lighting, the incandescent is dead. Compact fluorescent bulbs have come and gone. Even some LEDs are dead because of recent improvements.

People are resistant to change until the market proves to them there is something better.

[76-914]

Are you running a lot of electronics? If not you might look into a UPS battery. They're Gell cell, very small and light. IIRC, they were about 3x8x6h. I used to run them in my plane. They ran anywhere from $45-$60 in 2000. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[TravisNeff]

I had an odyssey PC680 (17lbs) in my SC. There is always a slow drain in that car in about a year of draining it dead over and over again, it wouldn't come back to life. Other than that it would start the car just fine when there wasn't that slow draw when the car sat.

So I searched out batteries for golf carts and bought 2. One for the 914 and one for the 911. So far so good.

Mighty Mite ML-35, which is 28amp/hr and 23lbs which is about the same as the PC925 and about $60.00. Its a bit smaller than stock and will fit on its side just about perfectly in the stock battery tray, or fits just fine in the standard upright config (although this particular one, the poles are reversed). You just need to make a mounting plate.

Here's a pic, I was contemplating moving the battery and not putting in the stock tray on my rust repairs - I will be putting the stock tray back in and keeping it there though.

[Rand]

Are you running a lot of electronics? If not you might look into a UPS battery. They're Gell cell, very small and light. IIRC, they were about 3x8x6h. I used to run them in my plane. They ran anywhere from $45-$60 in 2000. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Ironically, it is the smaller scale model aircraft battery technology that really pushed things forward.
Elon isn't using old school battery technology in full sized cars or trucks, especially going forward because the newer tech is more efficient, especially at the the coveted power to weight ratio. Battery technology is growing exponentially and for the better.

Ok, I need to go fire up a gas engine now...

[Andyrew]

I just picked up a Lithium motorcycle battery to replace my failed Optima. Optima is about 55lbs, the motorcycle battery is maybe 2.

300 CCA is plenty to start my modern low compression engine and the alternator will take care of the rest of the electrical components.

Started it a couple times so far with no issues. Thing is TINY. Best thing is it has an on board tester to see if the battery is charged.


I figured it was worth the try.

https://www.amazon.com/YTZ10S-Lithium-Seale...&ref=plSrch

[TravisNeff]

Looks like I need a new battery, that little sucker could mount at the bottom of the hell hole off the firewall (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Chris914n6]

The battery in my jump box starts cars just fine and it's half the size on a normal car battery. It's also the one that's doubled up for lawnmowers. 18-19ah + sealed

[horizontally-opposed]

Last time I brought this up I got some flack. But there's no question where things are going. Just be careful, because technologies change rapidly. Heck, most people won't know if LiPoly or Lithium Ion is the newer tech. And something better is around the corner.

Things are evolving. In lighting, the incandescent is dead. Compact fluorescent bulbs have come and gone. Even some LEDs are dead because of recent improvements.

People are resistant to change until the market proves to them there is something better.

Funny to hear you got flack last time around. People think nothing of fiberglass GT bumpers and lids that cost far more than even a $700 battery if you do them right—particularly if a body shop gets involved. It's all high fives and handshakes for those mods, which alter originality and require other kinds of commitments. A battery bolts in, and this is no small weight savings in a 914...and it's high in the car even if the original idea was to offset the driver's weight.

This is a discussion worth having.

Interesting, Andyrew...tell us more. Anyone else? Fwiw, my ideal scenario is a significant weight loss with no downside in functionality. Like the idea of an on-off switch on the battery and built-in jumpstarter, but would be very happy to find a cheaper alternative without those features. If we can determine the "go-to" Li-Ion battery in 2018, that wouldn't be a bummer. Wonder if it's safer than my Optima with re: to rust as well? Turning the battery off when the car is in storage/not in use definitely has to be safer....

[Big Len]

Some more info on the subject - https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/video...st-for-hybrids/

[jkb944t]

I just picked up a Lithium motorcycle battery to replace my failed Optima. Optima is about 55lbs, the motorcycle battery is maybe 2.

300 CCA is plenty to start my modern low compression engine and the alternator will take care of the rest of the electrical components.

Started it a couple times so far with no issues. Thing is TINY. Best thing is it has an on board tester to see if the battery is charged.


I figured it was worth the try.

https://www.amazon.com/YTZ10S-Lithium-Seale...&ref=plSrch

This option appears to be very cost competitive with a standard battery with a huge weight savings! If it works well it sure seems like a good option with many benefits.

Jeff B

[GregAmy]

I have a 25# Miata AGM battery in the street car. $99 shipped.

Race car uses a 13# Deka ETX-15 AGM battery. ~$75 shipped.

$700 for a battery...? That's Porsche GT3 "look at my battery!" money, not Porsche 914 money. But to each his own...

[gereed75]

I have used the PC680 extensively in my airplane - Cranks a 9:1 compression 360 cubic inch four no problem. Really good service, made in USA and 16 pounds. Got one going in the race car too. $109 at Amazon

The YTZ looks very interesting at 2.1 pounds!!

[Mark Henry]

I have a PC680 in my 3.0 /6, 10.1CR twin plug conversion.
It wouldn't crank a brand new engine, but now the engine is broken in no problem.
I made a mount so it lies on its side in the battery tray.
Not bad for a lawn tractor, motorcycle sized battery.

[campbellcj]

Same here re. the Odyssey PC680. They are fantastic; I disconnect the battery when not using the car, and it can sit a month and fire right up.

[Andyrew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMVT3nj6C4M


Took a quick video. Note car will not start due to undiagnosed wiring issue (Crank position sensor has to be right on the money to start, so I think thats the issue but cant tell and Ive replaced it 5 times). But you can see it turns over great. Also the onboard tester as I mentioned (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Battery is only 2lbs.

Would I use this on a daily driver? No, Would I use this on a weekender hooked up to a tender or a race car? Hell yes.



Side note: I havent driven this on the street, Just swapped the battery in last weekend for the build day so I could drive it up and down the trailer.

[mepstein]

3.75 lbs. starts a 3.6 - $150

Here's a very long thread about lightweight battery's and how Jack got to his. I think he's been using it now for 3-4 years.

Wrong thread - Here's the correct one - http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...ht-battery.html

[horizontally-opposed]

I have a 25# Miata AGM battery in the street car. $99 shipped.

Race car uses a 13# Deka ETX-15 AGM battery. ~$75 shipped.

$700 for a battery...? That's Porsche GT3 "look at my battery!" money, not Porsche 914 money. But to each his own...

Somewhat amazingly, a 914-6 is 996/997/991 GT3 money these days depending on condition/etc....while a really nice six conversion is 996 Turbo/997 money. Crazy times.

Fwiw, the "hey look at" factor is of zero interest to me. The weight savings are VERY interesting to me...though I agree $700 is hardly a "let me pick up the phone and order one of those right now" price point. Odyssey PC680, at 15.4 pounds for $110~, is looking pretty interesting for a street car. Wondering what else is out there. Maybe something in the middle ground.

Whatever the case, this is a very interesting weight loss option to me. Andyrew has me wondering about his setup for my weekender/occasional use car (as it would essentially negate somewhere between one third and getting towards half of the weight gain with the 911 engine, but I wonder if it's too extreme a solution as well as how it will deal with headlights, heated seats, audio system, etc...and any possible detriment to the charging system or ignition system. Have to admit, these are areas I don't know much about or understand. But I dig the idea of taking advantage of what's going on with batteries right now...