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> A Question for Those in the Know, I have an alignment question - UPDATE: Problem Solved
76-914
post Jun 19 2018, 06:11 PM
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I had my '73 aligned a week before Rt66 and failed to give it a proper road test before hitting the road About 70mph it begins to vibrate a bit and ceases around 80mph. Before having it aligned it drove like a dream but ate the front tires. Living in the sticks I don't have a lot of choices so I'm hoping someone can gleam these "before and after" alignment details and make a recommendation so that I can have it set correctly. TIA, Kent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) PS, click on the pic to view it upright.

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jcd914
post Jun 19 2018, 06:28 PM
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It is not likely the it is an alignment issue.
There is nothing in the alignment specs that would contribute to a vibration.

Vibrations at speeds above about 40 mph are almost always tire and wheel related.
I personally have never seen a high speed vibration that was alignment but I try not to say "X never causes Y".

Are the wheels stock?
I would be looking at the tires and wheels for balance issues or out of round?
73 should be hub centric wheels so they should be centered properly but I would check anyway.

Jim
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TravisNeff
post Jun 19 2018, 07:12 PM
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Sounds like a wheel balance or bent rim problem. Try putting the rear wheels on the front and see if that makes any difference.

What does look a little odd is the camber difference in the front, it is like they did not adjust that at all.
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Chris914n6
post Jun 19 2018, 08:30 PM
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Same tires or did you replace the fronts?
If same worn tires then they will behave odd as there will not be a flat contact patch.

What's up with the 1* camber difference up front and .5* rear. Laziness?
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post Jun 19 2018, 08:32 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) +2

Looks like they just adjusted the front toe.

If your fronts were scrubbed then the tires are probably out of balance.

I think I run more castor then that but I.d have to check.....been awhile.

How come ya didn.t do it yourself Kent?
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76-914
post Jun 20 2018, 07:48 AM
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The tires are new and balanced when installed. The ride was smooth as ice and I had the alignment done so that they did not wear as the old tires had. After the alignment is when the vibration began. The wheels are OEM Fuch's. I guess it is possible that they are NOT balanced properly. The guy at the alignment shop is easy to work with so I guess I can go back and complain but I was hoping to have some direction for him to follow. I was hoping that there were specs that I could provide the alignment shop with. The thing that has me chasing my tail is that Jim Hoyland posted his alignment specs and they vary from mine. Should I present them with his spec's and ask them to duplicate Jim's settings?

Here are Jim's alignment spec's which he posted here 2-3 mo's ago.

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Spoke
post Jun 20 2018, 09:23 AM
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So with toe out there's no vibration. With toe at zero you've picked up a vibration.

What shape are the wheel bearings, ball joints, and tie rod ends? Any looseness in these items can introduce vibration.

With toe out, the stress on bearing, ball joints, and tie rod ends is normally in one direction. With toe at zero, it would seem the items might be stressed in both directions thus any play could result in some wobble in the steering wheel.

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'73-914kid
post Jun 20 2018, 09:39 AM
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Net 0 toe in the front is a little aggressive for street driving in my opinion.. even on my car I run just a touch of toe-in on the front for freeway stability. The concrete freeway beds in California make's zero toe, or toe out alignments particularly divergent too.

Also, check your wheel bearing's up front. I've had a bearing that lost preload, and the only indicator was a vibration that got slowly worse in the steering wheel.
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Elliot Cannon
post Jun 20 2018, 11:03 AM
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Loose tie rods.
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76-914
post Jun 20 2018, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE('73-914kid @ Jun 20 2018, 08:39 AM) *

Net 0 toe in the front is a little aggressive for street driving in my opinion.. even on my car I run just a touch of toe-in on the front for freeway stability. The concrete freeway beds in California make's zero toe, or toe out alignments particularly divergent too.

Also, check your wheel bearing's up front. I've had a bearing that lost preload, and the only indicator was a vibration that got slowly worse in the steering wheel.
Didn't think to check the wheel bearings. They have ~7000 miles but recent reviews do mention a problem with lubrication at point of origin. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)



QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Jun 20 2018, 10:03 AM) *

Loose tie rods.

I'll check those as well. They have 11000 miles on them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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Elliot Cannon
post Jun 20 2018, 03:51 PM
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Jack the car up, grip the tire at 12 o:clock and 6 o:clock and try to wiggle it back and forth. There should be NO play in it at all. (Either that, or your car is just CURSED) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
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914forme
post Jun 20 2018, 06:09 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Kent do your own alignment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Your smart enough to do the simple math. I do it with strings, and a framing square. A couple of pieces of wood and some grease to make a slip plate. A couple of thick tiles and wax paper will do the same and not make a mess.

Alignment is most likely not the issue. But since they adjusted the tow, make sure all the locking nuts are in place.. etc...

Scott made a really nice fixture for home alignment. I will most likely build a set of hub stands when I get the chance. Sherline had a great set they used to sell that would also do corner weights, with bearings to take off the friction from moving the alignment. Very neat setup. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Does not look like they are building the system anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
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76-914
post Jun 20 2018, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE(914forme @ Jun 20 2018, 05:09 PM) *

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Kent do your own alignment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Your smart enough to do the simple math. I do it with strings, and a framing square. A couple of pieces of wood and some grease to make a slip plate. A couple of thick tiles and wax paper will do the same and not make a mess.

Alignment is most likely not the issue. But since they adjusted the tow, make sure all the locking nuts are in place.. etc...

Scott made a really nice fixture for home alignment. I will most likely build a set of hub stands when I get the chance. Sherline had a great set they used to sell that would also do corner weights, with bearings to take off the friction from moving the alignment. Very neat setup. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Does not look like they are building the system anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I thought about it but my understanding is that one needs a level floor. My garage floor slopes front to rear and left to right! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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post Jun 21 2018, 01:04 AM
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QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 20 2018, 08:37 PM) *

QUOTE(914forme @ Jun 20 2018, 05:09 PM) *

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Kent do your own alignment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Your smart enough to do the simple math. I do it with strings, and a framing square. A couple of pieces of wood and some grease to make a slip plate. A couple of thick tiles and wax paper will do the same and not make a mess.

Alignment is most likely not the issue. But since they adjusted the tow, make sure all the locking nuts are in place.. etc...

Scott made a really nice fixture for home alignment. I will most likely build a set of hub stands when I get the chance. Sherline had a great set they used to sell that would also do corner weights, with bearings to take off the friction from moving the alignment. Very neat setup. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Does not look like they are building the system anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I thought about it but my understanding is that one needs a level floor. My garage floor slopes front to rear and left to right! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)



Mine is pretty level. I've done it before and my floor is free.

Up to you.

And yes....despite what other people say....I think you might be smart enough.

Susan is a mean cook.
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Bartlett 914
post Jun 21 2018, 05:52 AM
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QUOTE('73-914kid @ Jun 20 2018, 10:39 AM) *

Net 0 toe in the front is a little aggressive for street driving in my opinion.. even on my car I run just a touch of toe-in on the front for freeway stability. The concrete freeway beds in California make's zero toe, or toe out alignments particularly divergent too.

Also, check your wheel bearing's up front. I've had a bearing that lost preload, and the only indicator was a vibration that got slowly worse in the steering wheel.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
I was fighting similar problems. The front wheel bearing was simply a little too loose.
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majkos1
post Jun 21 2018, 08:28 AM
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I had similar issues,

Replaced a worn bearing,
Vibration at 60 went away.
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76-914
post Jun 21 2018, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE(914_teener @ Jun 21 2018, 12:04 AM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 20 2018, 08:37 PM) *

QUOTE(914forme @ Jun 20 2018, 05:09 PM) *

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Kent do your own alignment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Your smart enough to do the simple math. I do it with strings, and a framing square. A couple of pieces of wood and some grease to make a slip plate. A couple of thick tiles and wax paper will do the same and not make a mess.

Alignment is most likely not the issue. But since they adjusted the tow, make sure all the locking nuts are in place.. etc...

Scott made a really nice fixture for home alignment. I will most likely build a set of hub stands when I get the chance. Sherline had a great set they used to sell that would also do corner weights, with bearings to take off the friction from moving the alignment. Very neat setup. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Does not look like they are building the system anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I thought about it but my understanding is that one needs a level floor. My garage floor slopes front to rear and left to right! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)



Mine is pretty level. I've done it before and my floor is free.

Up to you.

And yes....despite what other people say....I think you might be smart enough.

Susan is a mean cook.

Thanks Rob, I may take you up on that. I need to sort out the bearing and tie rod possibilities first. If nothing changes I will take it in for a tire balance to be sure I didn't chunk a weight before hooking up with you. TIA, Kent
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John
post Jun 21 2018, 11:37 AM
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I'm guessing that your front tires are worn slightly funny from the toe-out you had before.

Can't believe they didn't adjust camber to even it up side to side or fix your rear alignment. I like to have even toe in the rear to give a decent thrust line.

Have a look at your front tires and look for wear or feathering. If you can, put your rear wheels on the front and see if you still have some vibration in the steering or if it goes away. The tires/rims could simply need balancing.


Good luck with it. It is easy enough to do a decent alignment with string, jack stands, a ruler and time, but I prefer my alignment machine since I have one.
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76-914
post Jun 21 2018, 11:52 AM
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QUOTE(John @ Jun 21 2018, 10:37 AM) *

I'm guessing that your front tires are worn slightly funny from the toe-out you had before.

Can't believe they didn't adjust camber to even it up side to side or fix your rear alignment. I like to have even toe in the rear to give a decent thrust line.

Have a look at your front tires and look for wear or feathering. If you can, put your rear wheels on the front and see if you still have some vibration in the steering or if it goes away. The tires/rims could simply need balancing.


Good luck with it. It is easy enough to do a decent alignment with string, jack stands, a ruler and time, but I prefer my alignment machine since I have one.

Tires are new; or were. Have about 1600 miles on them now. And they didn't vibrate before the alignment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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John
post Jun 21 2018, 11:57 AM
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QUOTE(76-914 @ Jun 21 2018, 09:52 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 21 2018, 10:37 AM) *

I'm guessing that your front tires are worn slightly funny from the toe-out you had before.

Can't believe they didn't adjust camber to even it up side to side or fix your rear alignment. I like to have even toe in the rear to give a decent thrust line.

Have a look at your front tires and look for wear or feathering. If you can, put your rear wheels on the front and see if you still have some vibration in the steering or if it goes away. The tires/rims could simply need balancing.


Good luck with it. It is easy enough to do a decent alignment with string, jack stands, a ruler and time, but I prefer my alignment machine since I have one.

Tires are new; or were. Have about 1600 miles on them now. And they didn't vibrate before the alignment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


I'd definitely suggest that you swap tires front to rear and if the problem persists, you will find something worn out in the front. Wheel bearing(s), tie-rod(s), ball joint(s) that the previous alignment was masking.
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