Faulty Starter Switch(es) ? Options

[euro911]

OK, so I hadn't started the 'BB' for a while, but it was running fine the last time I did. I wanted to make sure everything was in fairly tip-top shape for Bill (Bill1963), prior to him taking custodianship a couple of weeks from now.

I wheeled a very large capacity (255A), heavy (170 lbs), fully-charged battery over to the car and ran heavy-duty jumper cables to the terminals and attempted to start her yesterday ... and nothing. I hear the fuel pump running, lights work, stereo works, etc.

Next, I raise the lift and jumped across the (+) starter cable terminal to the solenoid terminal under the car ... and viola, it cranks just fine. I had my wife turn the key while I checked for voltage on the solenoid terminal, but found no voltage present there.

I found and read a couple of old threads on starter issues, so I did the following: I checked the solenoid wiring from the switch (which is spliced at the bypassed relay box under the passenger seat - it's a '75) and that's fine.

I check the relays on the relay board, burnish the contacts and reinsert - still not activating the starter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I also read that sometimes the tumbler mechanism doesn't turn far enough to fully engage the electrical terminals in the ignition switch, so I crank to the right as hard as I can and the starter finally engaged (for a brief second or so). I tried it again several times afterwards without any success.

The ignition switch was replaced with a new one a couple of years ago and didn't have a ton of starting cycles on it ... so how is it, that just not being used for a period of time, that these 'new' switches seem to be failing?

Where can we purchase a quality made switch these days?

Signed, 'Frustrated' ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

some brands of electrical ignition switches have play in them and do not let the key turn far enough to give power to the yellow solenoid wire.

OK, so I hadn't started the 'BB' for a while, but it was running fine the last time I did. I wanted to make sure everything was in fairly tip-top shape for Bill (Bill1963), prior to him taking custodianship a couple of weeks from now.

I wheeled a very large capacity (255A), heavy (170 lbs), fully-charged battery over to the car and ran heavy-duty jumper cables to the terminals and attempted to start her yesterday ... and nothing. I hear the fuel pump running, lights work, stereo works, etc.

Next, I raise the lift and jumped across the (+) starter cable terminal to the solenoid terminal under the car ... and viola, it cranks just fine. I had my wife turn the key while I checked for voltage on the solenoid terminal, but found no voltage present there.

I found and read a couple of old threads on starter issues, so I did the following: I checked the solenoid wiring from the switch (which is spliced at the bypassed relay box under the passenger seat - it's a '75) and that's fine.

I check the relays on the relay board, burnish the contacts and reinsert - still not activating the starter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I also read that sometimes the tumbler mechanism doesn't turn far enough to fully engage the electrical terminals in the ignition switch, so I crank to the right as hard as I can and the starter finally engaged (for a brief second or so). I tried it again several times afterwards without any success.

The ignition switch was replaced with a new one a couple of years ago and didn't have a ton of starting cycles on it ... so how is it, that just not being used for a period of time, that these 'new' switches seem to be failing?

Where can we purchase a quality made switch these days?

Signed, 'Frustrated' ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Elliot Cannon]

Dianne must have a stronger wrist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Mblizzard]

OK, so I hadn't started the 'BB' for a while, but it was running fine the last time I did. I wanted to make sure everything was in fairly tip-top shape for Bill (Bill1963), prior to him taking custodianship a couple of weeks from now.

I wheeled a very large capacity (255A), heavy (170 lbs), fully-charged battery over to the car and ran heavy-duty jumper cables to the terminals and attempted to start her yesterday ... and nothing. I hear the fuel pump running, lights work, stereo works, etc.

Next, I raise the lift and jumped across the (+) starter cable terminal to the solenoid terminal under the car ... and viola, it cranks just fine. I had my wife turn the key while I checked for voltage on the solenoid terminal, but found no voltage present there.

I found and read a couple of old threads on starter issues, so I did the following: I checked the solenoid wiring from the switch (which is spliced at the bypassed relay box under the passenger seat - it's a '75) and that's fine.

I check the relays on the relay board, burnish the contacts and reinsert - still not activating the starter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I also read that sometimes the tumbler mechanism doesn't turn far enough to fully engage the electrical terminals in the ignition switch, so I crank to the right as hard as I can and the starter finally engaged (for a brief second or so). I tried it again several times afterwards without any success.

The ignition switch was replaced with a new one a couple of years ago and didn't have a ton of starting cycles on it ... so how is it, that just not being used for a period of time, that these 'new' switches seem to be failing?

Where can we purchase a quality made switch these days?

Signed, 'Frustrated' ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

I did this replacement 3 times before I just went to the dealer and got a Original German switch. Not a single failure to start after. Be smarter than me. Just do it once.

[Porschef]

100% Mark. Late switches are available through dealers and are Macht auf Deutchland so they should be good for, say, another 30 years?... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Money well spent.

[mepstein]

“so how is it, that just not being used for a period of time,”

Use it or loose it. Now it’s pissed off.

[Chris914n6]

It has a spring that is always under tension so eventually the plastic will fracture.

[euro911]

OK, I'll pull the damn thing out and see iffin I can get another one pretty quickly.

Thanks for all the input, gents (except for Elliot) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[ConeDodger]

URO... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[euro911]

NO URO911 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[rick 918-S]

Check the relay board. More plausible the board is corroding that the switch failed.

[michael7810]

Check the relay board. More plausible the board is corroding that the switch failed.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) mine was doing the same thing and cleaning the relay board connector contacts seemed to have fixed it

[Mike Bellis]

If you want to save your new switch from failure... Add a starter relay. The 914 never had one and switches high current through the ignition switch. A relay will reduce this load from 30A to 0.003A. The switch should last forever this way. BTW, all cars now have a starter relay just for this purpose.

[euro911]

I'll try cleaning up all the sockets on the relay board again. I did that a few years ago because of the salt-air environment we have here by the ocean. Maybe it's time to do it again. thanks, Michael.

Mike, there was an auxiliary starter relay on the 'BB' when I acquired it back in 2006. We decided to clean up the wiring when installing the new drive train in 2012, so we ditched it. I might still have it ... I'll take a cursory look around for it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

I'll try cleaning up all the sockets on the relay board again. I did that a few years ago because of the salt-air environment we have here by the ocean. Maybe it's time to do it again. thanks, Michael.

Mike, there was an auxiliary starter relay on the 'BB' when I acquired it back in 2006. We decided to clean up the wiring when installing the new drive train in 2012, so we ditched it. I might still have it ... I'll take a cursory look around for it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

A standard Bosch type 30A relay will work. Just install it clean and you won't have to clean it up in the future... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[euro911]

I pulled the relays, wire brushed the pins on them, also brushed the wiring connectors and fuse holders, and hit all the sockets on the relay board with a copper bottle brush.

Unfortunately, it didn't solve the starting problem though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Looks like a new ignition switch is on Monday's to-do list (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Mark Henry]

If you want to save your new switch from failure... Add a starter relay. The 914 never had one and switches high current through the ignition switch. A relay will reduce this load from 30A to 0.003A. The switch should last forever this way. BTW, all cars now have a starter relay just for this purpose.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I know some either love or hate my ford solenoid fix, but one of the huge bonus of it is taking the huge load off of the ignition switch. I like the ford solution as it's waterproof, no wires cut and unless you get under the car you can't see it.

I'm orginal switch, not a single cut/splice to my main harness. Only thing I've ever done is clean my grounds, something I do every so often anyways.
All three of my VW/porsche have one and I've never, ever, had a single ignition switch issue.

[HansJan]

If you want to save your new switch from failure... Add a starter relay. The 914 never had one and switches high current through the ignition switch. A relay will reduce this load from 30A to 0.003A. The switch should last forever this way. BTW, all cars now have a starter relay just for this purpose.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I know some either love or hate my ford solenoid fix, but one of the huge bonus of it is taking the huge load off of the ignition switch. I like the ford solution as it's waterproof, no wires cut and unless you get under the car you can't see it.

I'm orginal switch, not a single cut/splice to my main harness. Only thing I've ever done is clean my grounds, something I do every so often anyways.
All three of my VW/porsche have one and I've never, ever, had a single ignition switch issue.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Mblizzard]

As I had mentioned I replaced the ignition switch 3 times before going with the German replacement and adding the relay.

The Chinaisum replacements all failed because the plastic was not as thick as the German ones which allowed the contacts to move apart and arc with the load. Every one of the 3 showed indications of "high" load going through them and burning of the contacts.

Now which was the cause? the 40+ year old wiring or the fact that the contacts separated and arched? Not sure but after adding the relay and the German switch I have not had a problem But it seems clear that the Germans did a great job designing the starting components to last for its expected lifetime of likely 10 to 15 years. But as these cars age we all have to accept that some changes are required to account for the fact time and entropy will degrade the systems.

While I like the modern relays because they are much smaller compared to Marks Ford solution, but it seems that when you consider the amount of work required to replace the column switch, this modification has great merit.

[marksteinhilber]

For What It Is Worth (FWIW), the socket can be pulled off the back of the switch while it is still mounted in the steering column and a new switch can be plugged in to the loose wire bundle. This will allow you to operate the new switch using a flat blade screw driver to check to see if the new switch will start the car. If the car starts, you can deduce that the old switch still installed in the column is the culprit.

I think what mblizzard says about new cheap switches having thinner plastic may have some merit. Thinner plastic or poor quality may allow contacts to wander off target, have poor clearances, misaligned contacts, and may be more prone to high current arcing as a result. I found there are differences in how some of the key tumblers fit or actuate the center rotating portion of the plastic switch and caused me a problem. The point that a solenoid limits the total current flow through the key switch likely reduces the tendency to arc. Adding the (Ford) starter solenoid will probably make any of the replacement switches work better/longer. I haven't seen one of the European or Porsche OEM replacement switches and am not sure where to purchase except maybe through a dealer or maybe Automotion. I have only seen and tried to use the "cheap" parts and now have about three new and "suspect" spare switches. I put an original OEM part back in the car. It works beautifully with the correct and original matching key tumbler. I had to retrieve them from the PO as he had kept them from this 914 when it was his parts car. This picture shows the insides where the key tumbler actuates the center of the plastic switch.