Do stock drop links fit a 19mm sway bar?, Looking to buy drop links from classified section. |
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Do stock drop links fit a 19mm sway bar?, Looking to buy drop links from classified section. |
HansJan |
Jul 13 2018, 11:00 AM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 5-April 16 From: Sugar Land TX Member No.: 19,860 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Hello,
There is a set of stock drop links in the classified section. Would they fit a 19mm sway bar? Or should the 19mm sway bar be purchased as a set? If so: which set is best for street use (value and quality)? Thanks |
Dave_Darling |
Jul 13 2018, 05:28 PM
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#2
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
The answer is most likely no, but it depends on the 19mm bar you're talking about.
Front bars range from JC Whitney (which I wouldn't use!), through Weltmeister, up to Tarrett and possibly Smart Racing. Generally in increasing order of both quality and cost. The WM ones work, but do not use the "no gas tank removal" installation kit--and it's generally better to weld in the nut plates. --DD |
HansJan |
Jul 13 2018, 05:34 PM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 5-April 16 From: Sugar Land TX Member No.: 19,860 Region Association: Southwest Region |
The answer is most likely no, but it depends on the 19mm bar you're talking about. Front bars range from JC Whitney (which I wouldn't use!), through Weltmeister, up to Tarrett and possibly Smart Racing. Generally in increasing order of both quality and cost. The WM ones work, but do not use the "no gas tank removal" installation kit--and it's generally better to weld in the nut plates. --DD Thanks Dave... In that case I will not purchase the parts in from the classifieds. I'm still looking for the right bar to buy. Some sell hollow bars. An most are complete kits. I ordered the reinforcement triangles from 914ltd, just to get started. Unfortunately the search function doesnt work on this site. Because I'm sure there is a lot of info about which (Size) Swaybar to use for street use. |
914werke |
Jul 13 2018, 05:36 PM
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#4
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"I got blisters on me fingers" Group: Members Posts: 10,027 Joined: 22-March 03 From: USofA Member No.: 453 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Are you upgrading or installing new?
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914Sixer |
Jul 13 2018, 05:40 PM
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#5
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,870 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region |
New Bars available over at Sierra Madre.
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HansJan |
Jul 13 2018, 05:42 PM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 5-April 16 From: Sugar Land TX Member No.: 19,860 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Are you upgrading or installing new? Installing new. Ordered the mounting brackets (that need to be welded in place) yesterday. There is this fellow "Ian Karr" that post YouTube videos, making it appear to be doable. Now I need to find the correct Sway bar system to use. The car is a 1972-4, with 103mm cylinders. Any advise regarding size, or hollow vs solid bar? |
TravisNeff |
Jul 13 2018, 07:17 PM
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#7
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I have a weltmeister 22mm sway bar that will be for sale soon. I replaced the crappy welt drop links with Tarret drop links. Let me know if you are interested.
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914_teener |
Jul 13 2018, 07:33 PM
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#8
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,194 Joined: 31-August 08 From: So. Cal Member No.: 9,489 Region Association: Southern California |
+1 on the Tarret drop links.
I gave the stock ones away. |
HansJan |
Jul 13 2018, 07:50 PM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 5-April 16 From: Sugar Land TX Member No.: 19,860 Region Association: Southwest Region |
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TravisNeff |
Jul 13 2018, 08:10 PM
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#10
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Yes 22 is fine for street as it is adjustable.This came on my car when it had stock suspension and was just fine. Sending PM
Attached image(s) |
Dave_Darling |
Jul 13 2018, 08:36 PM
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#11
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
The appropriate size depends on more than just the use of the car. It also depends on the rest of the suspension. A car with very stiff rear springs and stock front torsion bars would want a sizeable front sway bar in order to make the roll stiffness similar on both ends.
You can adjust an adjustable bar, obviously. If you have a large bar and want a small amount of roll stiffness, you may wind up making very very small adjustments. With a softer bar, you would be making larger adjustments to get the same effect. The stock non-adjustable bar is 15mm. The 19mm adjustable ones are often seen as a reasonable replacement when the rest of the suspension is stock. The 21mm ones are obviously stiffer and are best when paired with something like 150 lb/in rear springs or larger. Note that adding a rear bar changes the rear roll stiffness and the desired front bar size can change there as well. --DD |
HansJan |
Jul 13 2018, 08:53 PM
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 5-April 16 From: Sugar Land TX Member No.: 19,860 Region Association: Southwest Region |
The appropriate size depends on more than just the use of the car. It also depends on the rest of the suspension. A car with very stiff rear springs and stock front torsion bars would want a sizeable front sway bar in order to make the roll stiffness similar on both ends. You can adjust an adjustable bar, obviously. If you have a large bar and want a small amount of roll stiffness, you may wind up making very very small adjustments. With a softer bar, you would be making larger adjustments to get the same effect. The stock non-adjustable bar is 15mm. The 19mm adjustable ones are often seen as a reasonable replacement when the rest of the suspension is stock. The 21mm ones are obviously stiffer and are best when paired with something like 150 lb/in rear springs or larger. Note that adding a rear bar changes the rear roll stiffness and the desired front bar size can change there as well. --DD Thanks DD. I’m considering the bar that Travis is offering (see pic above). From what I understand, my rear springs are 180#. |
TravisNeff |
Jul 13 2018, 09:50 PM
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#13
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I found some sway bar calculators online and did some number crunching.
The sway bar is 38" long overall, but I believe you are to measure the effective length right behind the lever arm, so I used 36" length. For the lever arms, they are 6", the adjustment rate is about 2.5 to 6". Here are the numbers. This would just be for the sway bar rate, not wheel rate. The stock mounting is about 3.5" to the middle of the strut. I think calculating an extra 3.5 inches in lever arm length should give you the wheel rate? Attached image(s) |
HansJan |
Jul 13 2018, 09:57 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 5-April 16 From: Sugar Land TX Member No.: 19,860 Region Association: Southwest Region |
The rate being?
Force (lbs) on the lever-arm at opposing side? Seems that DD is correct, that lots of adjustment can be made here. |
TravisNeff |
Jul 13 2018, 10:08 PM
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#15
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region |
The calculator is here. http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/Sway-Bar-Calculator.html
Below is a depiction of what to measure. I updated for wheel rate, I am assuming that we need to add 3.5 inches of A-arm length to get wheel rate. I am sure someone will chime in if I have this wrong (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Oh, stock and turbo sway bars are solid, so the ID is zero. My SRP bar is hollow and has a .120 wall thickness, I am assuming the welt bars are the same wall thickness. Attached image(s) |
jcd914 |
Jul 13 2018, 10:25 PM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,081 Joined: 7-February 08 From: Sacramento, CA Member No.: 8,684 Region Association: Northern California |
Travis,
This good information, I wish we had these online calculators when I was setting up suspension for racers. The Weltmeister sway bars are solid. The numbers for the turbo sway bar seem off to me compared to the Weltmeister bars but if your calculations for the Weltmeister bars assumed they were hollow that would explain it. Jim |
TravisNeff |
Jul 13 2018, 10:32 PM
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#17
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I will check tomorrow when I pull the welt bar. While they look solid, I believe that is only a solid chunk of metal pressed into the hollow bar for mounting the lever arms.
Here is a pic of my srp bar, you can see what I described above. Attached image(s) |
jcd914 |
Jul 13 2018, 11:31 PM
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#18
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,081 Joined: 7-February 08 From: Sacramento, CA Member No.: 8,684 Region Association: Northern California |
I will check tomorrow when I pull the welt bar. While they look solid, I believe that is only a solid chunk of metal pressed into the hollow bar for mounting the lever arms. Here is a pic of my srp bar, you can see what I described above. I have installed probably 30 or more of them and have 2 here at the house, the Weltmeister bars are solid not hollow. The owner of the shop I worked for was friends with the owner of Automotion and Weltmeister, Tom Green (I think that is the right name) and periodically we did testing and development for him. We had a 24mm Weltmeister sway bar we installed in a few of cars to test it, w 911s and a 914. Too stiff for most applications and the rest of the hardware was going to need upgrading, it never went into production. The SRP bar is a very nice quality bar, well designed and built. Jim |
TravisNeff |
Jul 14 2018, 12:50 PM
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#19
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Jim, you are right the welt bar is solid. Also, the lever arm adjustment range is about 3.5 to 7.5 inches.
I redid the calculations for the weltmiester bars as a solid bar instead of hollow. A bit of a bummer. While my new sway bar is like jewelery, it is about the same effective rate as the bar that I just pulled from the car. A CFR bar is starting to look inciting. Attached thumbnail(s) Attached image(s) |
HansJan |
Jul 16 2018, 03:45 PM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 5-April 16 From: Sugar Land TX Member No.: 19,860 Region Association: Southwest Region |
So I ended up buying the hollow SRP kit from Travis.
It comes with an Aluminum backing plate. This would allow an installation without welding in the reinforcement triangle (which I already ordered from 914ltd). Does the brain trust believe that I could use it that way? Or should I stilll weld in the reinforcement triangle (and not use the sandwich plate)? |
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