Tale of 3 Starter Motors, All three in the end, act the same way Options

[ctc911ctc]

[size=3]First some Facts

1974 2L, Barn Find, Last ran in 1988, ~20K miles
Rebuild the entire fuel system tank to injectors
Car will start - First start was yesterday, today ran for about 30 seconds


When we first energized the starter it would rotate the engine. Periodically there would be load CLANKS which would freeze the starter. The kind people in this forum suggested a new starter. NP, got a new one.

The second starter also CLANKED and then Broke! Ear came off of one of the mounts (see pic).

Soooooo, took it back and ordered another one - this took about an hour at the store to explain and then a day to get the new one from the 'warehouse'.

Installed the 3rd starter, the engine started - lots of white smoke after the blue Miracle Oil burned off. Engine stopped, tried to start it again and the Starter CLANKED and then froze. When I try to energize the starter it pulls about 500amps and just clicks. There is no whir or rotation at all - just the click of the solenoid.


Starter 1. CLANK and then Froze

Starter 2. CLANK, Froze and then the ear broke

Starter 3. CLANK, Froze.

For each of these when the starter is taken OUT of the car, it will operate on the bench perfectly. When put back in the car will operate until it CLANKS and freezes.


SOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo,

Has anyone had experience with a starter gear getting wedged on the flywheel?

I have rotated the engine with the starter out of the car and all of the flywheel teeth look perfect.


My ideas:

1. The flywheel and the starter gear are not perfectly aligned and the two gears when they engage are so close to each other and the gears wedge?

2. The Flywheel has come loose and perhaps moving so it strikes the housing and this freezes the rotation

3. Something entirely different that I could not have foreseen that the great minds within this list will roll their eyes and then tell me to check: XYZ


Many thanks in advance!

CTC

[ctc911ctc]

Pictures of the Broken Starter and the Flywheel teeth

[TheCabinetmaker]

It might just be your fuzzy pic, but that flywheel looks like someone took a grinder to it. Clear pic of the teeth please?

[DaveO90s4]

Are you sure that both starter bolts are tight and are holding the starter firmly and flush against the mounting face. - I ask this because I have difficulty imagining how else / what other forces could break one mounting ear off.

I'd suggest
1. Seeing if you can rotate the engine to visually check all ring gear teeth,
2. Measuring the critical distances. From starter mounting face to near side of ring gear. Then also measure on starter from starter mounting face to far end of pinion gear. The latter should be about 2mm less than the former to give clearance when not engaged and full engagement when engaged.
3. Manually pull pinion out and measure extension. Should be about 12 mm (to span the 2mm clearance gap plus the 10mm ring gear width.
4. I never really studied the shape of my ring gear. Yours look like square teeth. Others will know if that's normal or not and 127 teeth (from memory).
5. The starter pinion should be 9 tooth 25mm - is yours that?

DaveO

[914Sixer]

Sounds like flywheel was frozen to the clutch. Starter couldn't turn it and chewed up the teeth.

[ctc911ctc]

It might just be your fuzzy pic, but that flywheel looks like someone took a grinder to it. Clear pic of the teeth please?

Will do - grease is in the teeth in the pic - all are in very good shap

[76-914]

It might just be your fuzzy pic, but that flywheel looks like someone took a grinder to it. Clear pic of the teeth please?

Curt, left click on that pic and a duplicate will come up. Click on the "+" magnifying glass then you can expand greatly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[TheCabinetmaker]

Don't have a left click on my phone! Lol

[Mike Bellis]

Saw a similar problem before while working at my family's shop. The other mechanic changed everything you could think of but it would not crank right. New battery, alternator, starter... My dad looked at it for 2 minutes and told him to change the cables. It started right up after that. We cut the old cable open and it was full of green corrosion.

[ctc911ctc]

END OF THE TAIL

OK, here is the cause of the clanking.

My 17 year old son is the mechanic on this project. He was the one that took out and replaced the starter each time. After I wrote this note this afternoon I went to the garage and saw that there was a spring washer on the long Bolt that bolts into the engine compartment. I saw that the washer was on the Flywheel side of the starter......hhhmmmmmm

I called my son (out with friends) and asked him if he installed the washer between the starter and the car? He said YES. I asked him why. He said - because that is where it was when we took off the starter the first time. I cannot blame him since we have uncovered a great deal of weird in this car,

SOOOOooooo, the washer introduced about 1 radian of cant into the position of the starter and the way it hits the gear. I believe that this was enough to put a great deal of resistance on the interface between the starter pinion and the big Flywheel gear.

Installed the starter without the washer and the starter was faster and absolutely NO CLUNKS

THANK YOU 914World for the words of encouragement

CTC

[size=3]First some Facts

1974 2L, Barn Find, Last ran in 1988, ~20K miles
Rebuild the entire fuel system tank to injectors
Car will start - First start was yesterday, today ran for about 30 seconds


When we first energized the starter it would rotate the engine. Periodically there would be load CLANKS which would freeze the starter. The kind people in this forum suggested a new starter. NP, got a new one.

The second starter also CLANKED and then Broke! Ear came off of one of the mounts (see pic).

Soooooo, took it back and ordered another one - this took about an hour at the store to explain and then a day to get the new one from the 'warehouse'.

Installed the 3rd starter, the engine started - lots of white smoke after the blue Miracle Oil burned off. Engine stopped, tried to start it again and the Starter CLANKED and then froze. When I try to energize the starter it pulls about 500amps and just clicks. There is no whir or rotation at all - just the click of the solenoid.


Starter 1. CLANK and then Froze

Starter 2. CLANK, Froze and then the ear broke

Starter 3. CLANK, Froze.

For each of these when the starter is taken OUT of the car, it will operate on the bench perfectly. When put back in the car will operate until it CLANKS and freezes.


SOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo,

Has anyone had experience with a starter gear getting wedged on the flywheel?

I have rotated the engine with the starter out of the car and all of the flywheel teeth look perfect.


My ideas:

1. The flywheel and the starter gear are not perfectly aligned and the two gears when they engage are so close to each other and the gears wedge?

2. The Flywheel has come loose and perhaps moving so it strikes the housing and this freezes the rotation

3. Something entirely different that I could not have foreseen that the great minds within this list will roll their eyes and then tell me to check: XYZ


Many thanks in advance!

CTC

[billh1963]

Goes back to my thought on your original post....that's probably why the car was parked in the first place