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> swapping engines someday, Whats the weight difference
mepstein
post Sep 5 2018, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Sep 5 2018, 08:44 PM) *

2.4 7r case ..save weight and money all uodates done... except oil bypass mod $200


or I have plenty of sandcast cases lmk machined or not bring $$$$$


Did you forget a zero?
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sixnotfour
post Sep 6 2018, 10:38 AM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 5 2018, 06:49 PM) *

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Sep 5 2018, 08:44 PM) *

2.4 7r case ..save weight and money all uodates done... except oil bypass mod $200


or I have plenty of sandcast cases lmk machined or not bring $$$$$


Did you forget a zero?


(oil bypass mod $200) oops
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naro914
post Sep 11 2018, 07:50 AM
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Just wait until you decide to jump to a 3.2 liter 6 with 360 crank hp...then lets discuss exponential $$$....

though theres a guy that runs PCA and HSR racing in his early 2.0 911...has 3 engines: A, B, C. He uses the 'C' engine for PCA since its the most mild and he has no competition in his class. The "A" engine is for HSR/SVRA 2.0 racing. it pushes 260+ hp but needs to be rebuilt each year. "B" is back up in case the rebuild requirement comes earlier than expected... :-)

Said each engine was +/- $75k.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)
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wndsrfr
post Sep 11 2018, 07:36 PM
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Kermee has a Peter Dawe 2.7 showing 215rwhp on Mustang Dyno. The car weighs 1945# with 1/3 tank fuel. The car is faster than the driver.
Engine rebuild costs over $30k.
Buttercup has a 2316 Raby kit engine showing 160rwhp on DynoDynamics. The car probably weighs about 2200. Rebuilt by myself 3 times in 2 years doing DE events at about $3k per rebuild.
Best bang for the buck would be a big /4 with dry sump & lighten the car.
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mepstein
post Sep 11 2018, 08:29 PM
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Recently, while waiting through an 8 hour layover at the airport, I decided to (on paper) see how much weight I could remove from my early 914-4. I came up with 305 lbs. That's removing everything that doesn't make the car go or stop. Fiberglass hoods, lids, and bumpers, no side windows, targa top, trim, wiper, hood locks, ect. and making up some light weight brackets for the seats. If the car weighs 2000, that is a 15% weight reduction and should make the original 1.7 feel peppy, braking should shorten and handling should improve as well. A stronger 4 would really get it moving without having to resort to a high dollar build.
All mods would be easily reversible so I might move forward on this soon.
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2mAn
post Oct 12 2018, 06:27 PM
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QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Sep 11 2018, 06:36 PM) *

Best bang for the buck would be a big /4 with dry sump & lighten the car.


QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 11 2018, 07:29 PM) *

Recently, while waiting through an 8 hour layover at the airport, I decided to (on paper) see how much weight I could remove from my early 914-4. I came up with 305 lbs. ...All mods would be easily reversible so I might move forward on this soon.


I just finished reading this thread because I want to know what Id be getting into with a vintage correct racer, and this by all means tells me to stay with a -4, than a -6

I watch Bring a Trailer fairly closely and when I saw the guy say that he had the reserve set at the price it cost to build the motor. Then at $30k+ and NOT selling, I knew I dont have the stomach (and wallet, more importantly) for -6 racing

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-porsche-914-18/
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MikeSpraggi
post Oct 24 2018, 01:28 AM
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QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Sep 11 2018, 06:36 PM) *

Kermee has a Peter Dawe 2.7 showing 215rwhp on Mustang Dyno. The car weighs 1945# with 1/3 tank fuel. The car is faster than the driver.
Engine rebuild costs over $30k.
Buttercup has a 2316 Raby kit engine showing 160rwhp on DynoDynamics. The car probably weighs about 2200. Rebuilt by myself 3 times in 2 years doing DE events at about $3k per rebuild.
Best bang for the buck would be a big /4 with dry sump & lighten the car.


John, you have THE "Buttercup"???
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Chi-town
post Oct 24 2018, 10:59 AM
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I'll stick to my subie engines 300hp/300ftlbs that need rebilt every 50k miles for $2k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Jetsetsurfshop
post Oct 24 2018, 11:22 AM
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QUOTE(Chi-town @ Oct 24 2018, 08:59 AM) *

I'll stick to my subie engines 300hp/300ftlbs that need rebilt every 50k miles for $2k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Seems to easy... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
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mepstein
post Oct 24 2018, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE(Jetsetsurfshop @ Oct 24 2018, 01:22 PM) *

QUOTE(Chi-town @ Oct 24 2018, 08:59 AM) *

I'll stick to my subie engines 300hp/300ftlbs that need rebilt every 50k miles for $2k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Seems to easy... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Yea. That’s why I had to do at least one suby 914. $2k only gets you 20% there in a normal P6 rebuild.
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campbellcj
post Oct 28 2018, 08:19 AM
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My car was 1995lbs wet, last time on the POC scales. That is with full race safety equipment including a passenger seat + harness. Mag case 2.7 with extensive machine work and race mods; modded mag 914 sideshift trans. 235rwhp.

As noted, the -6 engines are frighteningly expensive to have someone build/rebuild these days. Someday I may try to do one myself. Have dreamt about a short-stroke 2.5 or a full tilt 2.8 or 3.0RSR with MFI. But even the decent cores are getting spendy.
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Jetsetsurfshop
post Nov 5 2018, 01:17 PM
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QUOTE(campbellcj @ Oct 28 2018, 06:19 AM) *

My car was 1995lbs wet, last time on the POC scales. That is with full race safety equipment including a passenger seat + harness. Mag case 2.7 with extensive machine work and race mods; modded mag 914 sideshift trans. 235rwhp.

As noted, the -6 engines are frighteningly expensive to have someone build/rebuild these days. Someday I may try to do one myself. Have dreamt about a short-stroke 2.5 or a full tilt 2.8 or 3.0RSR with MFI. But even the decent cores are getting spendy.


Hey Chris,
I love 235rwhp. Pretty awesome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
When you say "extensive machine work" Are you talking about shuffle pins and boat tailing?
My case is at the machine shop now, having a hard time deciding to spend that extra change?
Shane
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
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patrick3000
post Nov 10 2018, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE(2mAn @ Oct 12 2018, 07:27 PM) *

QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Sep 11 2018, 06:36 PM) *

Best bang for the buck would be a big /4 with dry sump & lighten the car.


QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 11 2018, 07:29 PM) *

Recently, while waiting through an 8 hour layover at the airport, I decided to (on paper) see how much weight I could remove from my early 914-4. I came up with 305 lbs. ...All mods would be easily reversible so I might move forward on this soon.


I just finished reading this thread because I want to know what Id be getting into with a vintage correct racer, and this by all means tells me to stay with a -4, than a -6

I watch Bring a Trailer fairly closely and when I saw the guy say that he had the reserve set at the price it cost to build the motor. Then at $30k+ and NOT selling, I knew I dont have the stomach (and wallet, more importantly) for -6 racing

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-porsche-914-18/



2mAn

What budget are you looking at, on the track and ready to race?
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campbellcj
post Nov 22 2018, 09:05 AM
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QUOTE(Jetsetsurfshop @ Nov 5 2018, 11:17 AM) *


Hey Chris,
I love 235rwhp. Pretty awesome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
When you say "extensive machine work" Are you talking about shuffle pins and boat tailing?
My case is at the machine shop now, having a hard time deciding to spend that extra change?
Shane
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)


So I finally looked-up my engine build notes and both cases I have seem to have similar machining:

- Case savers
- Time certs
- Oil bypass mod(s)
- Full-groove/enlarge #4 main bearing
- Surface spigots
- Screw-in galley plugs
- Line bored Std/Std

The spare also has Shuffle Pins. The machine work on this spare case was ~1500 around 5 years ago. I got a great deal on the case already-done when somebody changed their build plans.

Two other important factors I remember is we used ARP studs/hardware and a 930 (IIRC) oil pump. The first 2.7 I bought already-built (which failed pretty quickly) had a 964 pump which apparently is not as robust. I think the GT3 pump is also popular for hotrod builds.

The current engine is set up for top-end power, here is a dyno sheet -


Attached File(s)
Attached File  914R_Dyno_sheet_2017_02_12.pdf ( 794.39k ) Number of downloads: 55
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mepstein
post Nov 22 2018, 09:32 AM
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914-6 GT in waiting
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QUOTE(campbellcj @ Nov 22 2018, 10:05 AM) *

QUOTE(Jetsetsurfshop @ Nov 5 2018, 11:17 AM) *


Hey Chris,
I love 235rwhp. Pretty awesome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
When you say "extensive machine work" Are you talking about shuffle pins and boat tailing?
My case is at the machine shop now, having a hard time deciding to spend that extra change?
Shane
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)


So I finally looked-up my engine build notes and both cases I have seem to have similar machining:

- Case savers
- Time certs
- Oil bypass mod(s)
- Full-groove/enlarge #4 main bearing
- Surface spigots
- Screw-in galley plugs
- Line bored Std/Std

The spare also has Shuffle Pins. The machine work on this spare case was ~1500 around 5 years ago. I got a great deal on the case already-done when somebody changed their build plans.

Two other important factors I remember is we used ARP studs/hardware and a 930 (IIRC) oil pump. The first 2.7 I bought already-built (which failed pretty quickly) had a 964 pump which apparently is not as robust. I think the GT3 pump is also popular for hotrod builds.

The current engine is set up for top-end power, here is a dyno sheet -

We just built a 3.0 for the track with a gt3 pump. I think the pump was around $900.
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naro914
post Nov 22 2018, 09:46 AM
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Losing my mind...
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Damn...my last GT3 oil pump was $1500!
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mepstein
post Nov 22 2018, 10:28 AM
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QUOTE(naro914 @ Nov 22 2018, 10:46 AM) *

Damn...my last GT3 oil pump was $1500!

Your probably right. I’m thinking dealer cost.
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Chi-town
post Nov 22 2018, 10:53 AM
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QUOTE(Chi-town @ Oct 24 2018, 08:59 AM) *

I'll stick to my subie engines 300hp/300ftlbs that need rebilt every 50k miles for $2k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


My suby is a tad lighter but only 250bhp and about $1k for a rebuild or $1200 for a complete running engine.

It comes in at about 50lbs lighter than any of the Porsche 6 cylinders also. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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