Went to change a broken clutch cable, discovered car has cancer, bit emotional at this moment. Knew it was coming, didn't expect the scope Options

[davebrossi]

Hi All,

I prefer most often to lurk, but after a spin to a nearby autobody shop about filling in some rock chips on the rear fender flairs of the clown car netted me a 13,500 estimate, I've been a little on edge for rust. This morning I set out to change the clutch cable which had snapped last weekend. As I was getting myself situated I noticed some of the undercoating seemed more...flaky than usual.

I moved my finger towards it, brushed it and off it came! along with another small piece. I was now staring in disbelief at a mixture of pink body filler and carpet. OK! I told myself, this seems relatively minor, let's just clean the area, I can fix this, maybe not the best way, but I can!. That was five hours ago. As I worked I realized I needed to see where the damage was on the interior, so I removed the carpeting. Once again, I spied a familiar orange tinge... under the urethane installed at the factory. I started working with a chisel and hammer. What was a small hole was in fact a seam running along and right up to the driver's side right seat bracket. The concrete below glared at me menacingly.

The clown car (my 914-6) was the result of an venture from a forum member offering turnkey restoration of 914s. I have no interest in flaming or anything mean, so I will not say who, and that's not a challenge either, since frankly all of this was beneath urethane, and said individual cleaned, primered and properly painted surfaces all the way to the old urethane on the floor pans. but it is worth mentioning because rather than spiral down the inception styled road of 'oh god I'm doomed, DOOOOOMMMMED!' I sat back and thought about what they -had- restored and what I had to go back and work on. The interior of the door panels was rusty, I sanded, sealed with POR15, clear coat has a craze to it, but stable and looks fine. Small side sail bumps. Originally thought body filler, probably tin worm, but unlikely to fail while driving and drag me half out of the bottom of the car. Longitudinals, hell hole both extensively reviewed during restoration, both are clear. I don't see bubbles all over the car, and the 13500 was with a note saying "we don't serve yer kind round these parts try these guys since they do antiques" from a shop filled with classic american muscle cars and more of a 'get lost' message, which I understand because scope creep is real.

I want to believe this is one of those typical stories where I don't wind up with the Porsche 914 equivalent of "you have died of dysentery" on the Oregon Trail PC game, but I also have to face up to the fact that I will have to acquire new front and rear floor pans. Happily they can be ordered from Pelican without much fuss (the available weld in panels for the 914 is really REALLY a reason I love them in an odd sort of way.)

I know I have to invest in a welder as I lack the skills. I want to prepare the area as best as humanly possible because A.) I believe in being a good steward and B.) I'm afraid while I'm happy to pay for their services, I am cheap and would prefer to do the prep work myself.

Advice (maybe prayers?) is/are appreciated, but I will be searching threads and educating myself accordingly as I know I need to. in the meantime, here's some NSFW Porsche Floor pan gore;


the initial discovery and early cleaning



The point at which I realize I should probably look at the top end of things.



because regrettably I am a millenial, I wanted to show off my PPE for working with fiberglass and sanding.



The moment my heart sank, the colour drained out of my face, and I had to go have a little sit down. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)



This is the extent of the rot. You can see the garage floor clearly a menacing glare fixed on it's eyeball-less face :E! I wont blame the consumption of Hubert's lemonade, wait, no, yes I'll blame it for the rust after all!



The start of (and at which point I realized that the floor pans were toast on both sides) the surface rust on the other side.

I'll admit it was heartbreaking to discover. I wanted to give up and throw it all away, sell it and be done with it. But then again, new front and rear floor panels are made for a reason, and the last undiscovered country (Star Trek) both my father and I were starting into was body work in the last couple years. I'm hoping I'm not right thinking this will require the selling of one of both a kidney and a lung, frankly I have no idea, though (in a phrase I use talking with my employers often) I look forward to the opportunities it will afford me moving forward. Bonus points here in how my dad managed to cause the usual reaction that always happened when there was a setback and he had to tell mom one last time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

[davebrossi]

Quick mention; I know the floor pan is a two piece setup. However, With said hammer and chisel I chased my way down the driver's side finding surface rust along the sides and lower portions of the metal. While I didn't check the passenger's side, I figured it was moot since the panels are upper and lower, not left and right.

[Firstcar]

Condolences. Anything is fixable, just comes down to cost and motivation. If the longitudinals and suspension consoles are solid, this should not be that bad of a job. Hard to see how far the rust extends along the longs and the rear firewall from the pictures. Best find yourself a trusted club member experienced in welding repairs in your area for an in person consult before you rip everything apart. Good luck!

[EdwardBlume]

Its the challenges in life that define us more than our successes. You will over come.


Restoration Designs sells the floor plans. Everyone marks them up.

[mepstein]

There are a counter or different ways to buy the pans. Check with restoration design. Good luck with the project.

[billh1963]

Yes...anything can be fixed. Only costs time and money.

I'm more interested in the previous restoration work. Was rust repair mentioned in the rust repair bills?

[worn]

It isn’t that bad. You can do it. Nice write up too. To me, “undiscovered country” is Hamlet, which Picard can do in his sleep.

[davebrossi]

Yes...anything can be fixed. Only costs time and money.

I'm more interested in the previous restoration work. Was rust repair mentioned in the rust repair bills?

It was not. Again, I have no wish to (borrowing a millenial term here, sorry) 'throw shade' on the original work. Most of what I heard was second hand from my dad's side, but the body was originally said to be surprisingly good with only some minor rust. I was led to believe it was repaired along the way. Battery tray was either replaced or in good shape, and just above where the original urethane spray was placed in the factory, the metal is clean, primer and then just beyond that line regular paint. When I had the motor out of the car I had no sense of any rust whatsoever, which is why this was such a shock to the level that it is.

Part of it frankly is me. I know 914s are equipped with rust at the factory, but I chose to drive it in the winter, sometimes on slushy roads, and it's been in a couple storms. Salt isn't used out here so in my mind that meant I wasn't rolling the dice.

A couple years ago when I had the car in a car show I noticed the crazing in the clear coat. It took some effort to see it. I pulled the door cassettes and saw the peeling paint and mark of the beas...err the tin worm. So I sanded, sanded, sanded some more, as best I could then treated the area and any exposed skin in POR15. I reasoned I could live with (still can) crazed clear coat that you have to be right up against to see. That was where the body shop started flipping out and adding zeroes to the paint work. "See this here sir is bondo cuz it's all crazy like, so we have to start from the doors now and work our way back." I wish I was paraphrasing but the lad delivering the news was desperately trying to grow the start of a tiny pencil stache'

Time I have, and elbow grease to spare. I will sand, and do everything in my power to disassemble what I need to (johnny 5 no disassemble!) though I'm hoping this does not mean to the degree the folks on youtube with the freshly painted 914 frame on a rotisserie did (it was just the frame.)

[jdamiano]

Doesn’t look too bad. Always hard to tell from pictures. What I see can be fixed. Get a grinder and wire wheel and get rid of the loose rust and coat with rust neutralizer. Just Dynamat over it. Just kidding but you could probably weld those holes up without replacing the pans.

[davebrossi]

Doesn’t look too bad. Always hard to tell from pictures. What I see can be fixed. Get a grinder and wire wheel and get rid of the loose rust and coat with rust neutralizer. Just Dynamat over it. Just kidding but you could probably weld those holes up without replacing the pans.

You're absolutely right, and also correct in the fact that Dynamat will eventually cover the new pans. But as I chipped at old factory Urethane I was hoping to find a point where even mild surface rust stopped. I got to the peddle cluster and stopped. I still need to be certain the longitudinals haven't done a 180 in protest and gone the way of the floor pans (they have, I might add, been reinforced by a kit developed by the very mentionable Brad Meyer of 914 ltd fame, who despite being a sort of rock star of 914s in my eyes I lived down the street from in Peoria for four years and never knew about it until I'd moved out west.)

Also I'm happy with the restoration design pricing! I always get so excited when I mention how almost all of the 914's body and frame can be sourced and how cool that is with people shaking their heads at the man that must appear to have three heads or something. I'll admit the fact that it's because VW installed a rust upgrade that lightens the car as you race that caused the explosion in aftermarket parts, but I'm grateful at least enough people want them to justify the industry.

I actually got an offer from someone local whose family ran a welding business until the credit crunch in 2008. They worked for me briefly and we've stayed in touch on and off. They've offered to do the welding, which is a big load off my shoulders. But now it's on to the prep! the thing I was anxious to save money on by muddlin, er, carefully working my way through! hurray!

[VaccaRabite]

Seriously.
This.
Is.
Nothing.

It’s not terminal. It may be a floor pan or some patching.
Fix it. Get all the damned tar off the floor of your car and really see how bad it is. But this is not terminal. This is easy to fix.
Easy peasie.

Zach

[porschetub]

You will be fine ,most find out way worse,many on here that part out cars can supply cut out pieces so you can have them spliced in...unless the rest of the pans are rotted right out then its new pans,problem is these cars leak and water sits in the floor pans and they rot,no getting over that,by the way love your car really nice.
Good luck.

[Larmo63]

I'm torn here, because I want to root for you and your continued success in rust containment. On the other hand, I hope this thread lasts a while because your writing style is entertaining.

[bbrock]

As someone who has one of those naked chassis hanging on a rotisserie in his garage, I'll pile on to what others have said. This ain't nothin'. Like Zach said, clean all the tar off the whole floor and then post pics of the whole thing. So far, it does look like patching in a piece from a donor car will do the trick and have you back on the road in no time. BTW, I'm just up the road in Bozeman. We're practically neighbors by our standards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[rjames]

Cut out the pan (or the parts of it that are shot) and weld a new one in. It will take less time than it took you to write those posts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[davebrossi]

I'm torn here, because I want to root for you and your continued success in rust containment. On the other hand, I hope this thread lasts a while because your writing style is entertaining.

When during mid sentence I realized my late father had never said to my mother just how much money was involved in the 914 I had another color draining from the face moment. The good news is (this is not some sort of humble brag) she's well taken care of in that regard, but I did everything but mouth 'oh sh*t' to the drywall in front of me covered in about a decade's worth of greasy finger prints where I'd leaned on it to get around various cars over the years.

Should also add I don't 'hate' pink or any shade thereof. While I don't wear anything pink, I'm very quickly learning to dislike it because the following was how the horrible reveal transpired; chisel and hammer, hammer, hammer, *CRACK!* up comes what looks like the rest of the urethane, but on the other side salmon pink I guess swimming up stream to spawn misery and create an unwanted new fresh air intake. On the plus side I -would- have been the guy driving along otherwise when suddenly my right side was hanging below the car and I'd have to get home and at the same time try and pretend everything was OK out of fear of being a bother or embarrassed. 'Yep, Porsche had this as a feature!'

[r_towle]

No one is entitled to a rust free 914! You have to do it.
Then it’s yours, and you saved it.

[cary]

Place close attention under the e-brake. Water likes to settle in there too.

[914Sixer]

Just do it!

[burton73]

“(they have, I might add, been reinforced by a kit developed by the very mentionable Brad Meyer of 914 ltd fame,”


This worries me a little as you have some rust. This is done on cars with badly corroded longs.

If it is done and you wanted to put in new pans, it is just drilling out the welds and welding in new floors. I did this on my 6. It was a rust-free car except for a few lower areas of the floor right where yours has the rust in the pictures.


Your car is not going to melt away in 2 years. Just do not water it daily.

If you do not want to fix it up today just clean it up and fix the pans when you have time and money to do it.

I remember when my first 73 911s and I needed to put a fuel pump in it. The shop said it would be $330. That was a lot of money in 79.
Then I heard I needed to rebuild the engine because of a rod knock. $5000 for parts and machine work. This was for a $9500. Car in 79. I did all the work on engine and at 500 miles Someone stole that car and the insurance co paid me $12,500.


That car is worth$120,000 - $150,000 today.

Steel your nerves and look up people that have done this themselves and figure what you want to do.

I see your car is a 6 because of the Motoric. This should be a very desirable car. I like my cars perfect. It is a curse for me. I was in my mid 20s when I got my first P cars.

Good luck. Just BREATH.


Bob B
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