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> Went to change a broken clutch cable, discovered car has cancer, bit emotional at this moment. Knew it was coming, didn't expect the scope
davebrossi
post Sep 9 2018, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE(burton73 @ Sep 9 2018, 12:39 PM) *

“(they have, I might add, been reinforced by a kit developed by the very mentionable Brad Meyer of 914 ltd fame,”


This worries me a little as you have some rust. This is done on cars with badly corroded longs.

If it is done and you wanted to put in new pans, it is just drilling out the welds and welding in new floors. I did this on my 6. It was a rust-free car except for a few lower areas of the floor right where yours has the rust in the pictures.


Your car is not going to melt away in 2 years. Just do not water it daily.

If you do not want to fix it up today just clean it up and fix the pans when you have time and money to do it.

I remember when my first 73 911s and I needed to put a fuel pump in it. The shop said it would be $330. That was a lot of money in 79.
Then I heard I needed to rebuild the engine because of a rod knock. $5000 for parts and machine work. This was for a $9500. Car in 79. I did all the work on engine and at 500 miles Someone stole that car and the insurance co paid me $12,500.


That car is worth$120,000 - $150,000 today.

Steel your nerves and look up people that have done this themselves and figure what you want to do.

I see your car is a 6 because of the Motoric. This should be a very desirable car. I like my cars perfect. It is a curse for me. I was in my mid 20s when I got my first P cars.

Good luck. Just BREATH.


Bob B
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)


Hi Bob!

So the reason behind the reinforcement kit was due to the installation of a 3.2 911 motor out of a wrecked 88 Cab. Along with a steel reinforcement plate for the 904 transmission and a strict "no dumping the clutch unless you really want to literally dump pieces of the clutch behind you on the road" policy it was to help with any issues caused by increased HP/Torque. I'll need to check upon removal of the side covers how the reinforcement was installed, I suspect weld. I -can- say with some certainty when Brad did his reinforcement there was no conversation about rust, or the discovery of any unforeseen issues, just a video from Dad showing off how nicely the car idled in -5F weather.

You're right on desirability as well, there are three parts to my ownership; enjoying my dream car rather earlier in life than I expected, being a good steward to the legacy of the build, and also to make certain as a tangible asset if the time comes to part with the car I do not have to worry about answering the questions regarding rust.

I should also add MB911's custom exhaust system made it possible to actually -enjoy- driving the car in -5F as inside it was nice and warm. I probably sound like a bit of a shill now name dropping, but it helps to know what one is working with.

Other note; When I dropped the motor to mend a pesky oil leak (which unfortunately I did not mend, banjo fitting to oil pressure sender to chain tensioner housing curse you thirty cent washer!,) I looked over the engine bad including the area around the battery tray, the back of the firewall, etc. While this was a couple years ago, no signs of corrosion. all the metal was clean and painted. Where I nicked the paint I went back with POR15 (I don't recall corrosion, but what's that reality TV show's saying about Safety Third?) and then applied touch-up paint.

....Come to think of it I got my first P Car in my mid 20s, but while you had a 911S, I had a 931 which wasn't running/never ran (eight years ago I did not have the level of confidence to tear the entire car apart so I never fixed it correctly) and then a 986S but though "No, what I'd rather have is something rusty!" though truth be told short of adding heated seats I like the 914 experience -much- more albeit somewhere down the road I know with the advancements made in A/C Compressor technology I fancy the idea of adding that to complete what I'd consider the modernity package I started with heating. Maybe by then I'll have properly replaced all the rubber too (still after a main targa seal, Dad and I buggered the install of the repro he found years ago) and wont have to explain why I have mud all over me when I stop to refill on a rainy day.
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davebrossi
post Sep 10 2018, 08:25 PM
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Hi All, I'm back! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

I can't promise super frequent updates as life gets in the way, but while I'm ablaze with indignation that the rust fairy has been overly generous in their gifts, I will follow up as I dig into what's wrong, where, and how much will need replaced. Without further delay, cue scaring the neighbors PPE Inspection selfie!

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To address the question, no, I never served, but I have halted downward motion on a cactus bramble or three during ten years of airsoft, so good PPE is always essential, especially since I have the rare and mysterious ability to prove Murphy's chief axiom when it comes to bodily harm. With drill and new soon to be destroyed wire brush set I set off first to take a look at the upper floor pan, driver's side which was the cause of concern initially.

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The white areas/pinkish areas are body filler. My initial suspicion of just one seam of total rot was optimistic at best.

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This is the same low point from a side perspective. Lower in the picture you can see the previously discovered patch of sunshine and rainbows I originally discovered..oh dear, I'm seeing a pattern here.

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I wander a bit too easily so I pulled back the carpeting and ran the drill along the side of the pan/up against the longitudinal for a little while. The areas that look like sludge or as I prefer to see them, miniature representations of the elephant foot in Chernobyl's reactor number 4, are rust, pure and simple. Going to see lots of it, hurray!

....I feel it warranted to mention at this point that A.) I had my tetanus booster last year and B.) shortly after this picture I nicked my hand with the brush. Thanks gloves! Saved me a lot of awkward questions tomorrow! :-D:-D:-D

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Holey floor pans, batman! .. there.. see..um... see what I did there with the... THERE ARE MANY HOLES IN THE FLOOR PAN THERE! Again, this is the second low point, at which point I reasoned, yes, the upper floor pan on the driver's side is cannot be salvaged. Savaged maybe, but not mended.

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I widened not just my camera angle here, but valid questions were raised about the condition of the firewall metal. The initial good news is that while I had some rust staining, and the glue holding the urethane cover gave me a a small scare, the floor pan seems to be the worst of it. The metal on the firewall -appears- (too soon to check, I burned through three 20V batteries in an hour and a half) solid.

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Focusing on the firewall again. Hopefully by now we all know the car was originally red, even before the rust!

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a close up just to the right of the bolts holding the engine mount partially in place, there is glue residue in the top right hand part of the frame, I promise having gotten my hand stuck to it rust hasn't become an effective adhesive that I know of.

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Where the firewall mates up with the center cross piece, I used some of the last of the precious electricity to run the brush here to bare metal. The pan? Stuffed crust, rust flavor. The firewall/Center channel; I'm cautiously optimistic.

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I did run the brush for a short time in front of the cross member there, the initial section I'd uncovered here, sure enough, Tin lizzy, come to say... something... I mean more rust. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

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Last of the series, again, what I'm seeing is rust forming in the depressions in the pan, not to the level of severity I -thought- I'd creepily depicted in the upper pan area (i.e., that I didn't fall out the bottom of the car is a testament to the endurance of bondo under load by a man-wot-loves-cheesecake)

At this point with no batteries left it was game over, man, game over! I did get back inside before dark because they mostly come out at night...mostly. Unfortunately the brush and drill couldn't overcome the factory urethane closer to the peddle cluster, so that's another night for chip and hope. I'm also fighting two screws torqued a bit too over zealously into the side skirting. Inspecting the bare metal around the heat tube I saw no cause for alarm, but then I saw no cause for alarm driving the car about until the clutch cable retired itself.

I'm trying to maintain a light hearted attitude, yes, my nature is normally very cynical and caustic, so I fear a lot of bad attempts at humor shall follow. I figure I can either leave it buried for years, or get things as clean as possible so when the time comes the person who will be welding for me (not a forum member, but someone with 30 years experience welding stepped forward to do the job when I'm ready. That said, I am obligated to help said individual source parts for a 69 Chevelle in repayment. )

Now, a question! solid linkage for the transmission runs through that central 'tube' (I'm using the term loosely because I suffer from nominal aphasia and know someone will correct me) along with wiring from the engine. Before I go into 'scrap the hell out of the metal' mode on the passenger's side I'd like to pause and carefully disconnect what I need to. I assume that center tube remains when the pans are removed, along with the longitudinals. Other than under the car I can't really get a brush to it, any recommendations for Rust inspection?


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Chip
post Sep 10 2018, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ Sep 8 2018, 07:47 PM) *

Seriously.
This.
Is.
Nothing.

It’s not terminal. It may be a floor pan or some patching.
Fix it. Get all the damned tar off the floor of your car and really see how bad it is. But this is not terminal. This is easy to fix.
Easy peasie.

Zach

Yes and hurrah for PMA!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Your dialogues are inspiring to anyone with two hands and a welder and a sober mind. I can do it. My '73 is typical. Sat for over 30 yrs. Hell hole is typical, but it can and will be done. Fuel tank and lines solid with the finest black, hard tar you have ever seen. But they are replaced. Hurrah! Nothing succeeds like success. Stick to the work until it sticks to you, and all that happy hs. Don't dessert us newbies.
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davebrossi
post Sep 10 2018, 09:30 PM
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QUOTE(Chip @ Sep 10 2018, 08:30 PM) *

QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ Sep 8 2018, 07:47 PM) *

Seriously.
This.
Is.
Nothing.

It’s not terminal. It may be a floor pan or some patching.
Fix it. Get all the damned tar off the floor of your car and really see how bad it is. But this is not terminal. This is easy to fix.
Easy peasie.

Zach

Yes and hurrah for PMA!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Your dialogues are inspiring to anyone with two hands and a welder and a sober mind. I can do it. My '73 is typical. Sat for over 30 yrs. Hell hole is typical, but it can and will be done. Fuel tank and lines solid with the finest black, hard tar you have ever seen. But they are replaced. Hurrah! Nothing succeeds like success. Stick to the work until it sticks to you, and all that happy hs. Don't dessert us newbies.


Wasn't pretending about the dream car part, no, I'd sell my daily driver or at least cut it up (a mazda CX5 doesn't have much in common with the 914, but it has -some- steel in it as far as I can tell beneath the plastic) before I bugger off. What I need is a corded drill, a decent A/C Inverter, and the Optima red top from the car. Maybe I'd get more than an hour's work done...probably electrocute myself too.
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bbrock
post Sep 10 2018, 10:33 PM
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Doesn't look bad at all. I'd stab at the worst spots with a screw driver to see if they are still solid. If so, I don't think you are at any risk of going Fred Flintstone anytime soon so can take your time on the floor repair.

You're right that the central 'tube' (tunnel) stays in place. You can get a cheap boroscope to hook to a computer or phone to inspect, but if you wind up deciding to replace the floor, it won't really matter. Here's a pic of what you'll be looking at if the whole floor comes off.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1516647623.jpg)

My car was completely stripped, but I don't see why you couldn't do it with the shift linkage, cables, and wire harness in place. I'd pull the shift linkage though just to get it out of the way so you can treat and paint the tunnel while it is open, but I would mess with the wire harness.

Since this all started with a busted clutch cable, I would check the metal tube that runs inside the central tunnel (the big one in that pic) that the cable runs through and make sure it is still attached to the tunnel at one end and firewall at the other. They have a nasty habit of breaking loose and causing the cable to bind and fail. There are ways to repair without yanking the floor or tunnel, but if you wind up deciding to replace the floor, dealing with the clutch tube will be easy while you are there.

Good luck!
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davebrossi
post Sep 15 2018, 12:07 PM
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Another weekend, and another discovery (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) but first, some context as to what I went about doing today. owing to the discovery I made regarding rust's preference to be lazy and go for the lowest points in the pans, and the fact that I burn through three cordless drill batteries in under two hours, I have to be picky about where I chase bare steel. So I started by going down the upper and lower pan on the driver's side from under the car, checking the depressed areas. Sadly there is no SSRI to provide them with a shinier rust free outlook, but no additional pinprick sized holes reared their ugly heads

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I turned my attention briefly to the Passenger's side where the Motronic brain of my 3.2 was.. so very sophisticatedly mounted to the chassis. No, really, The bolts have in-tact sealant around them, though the hole in the middle defeats the purpose :-)

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There has been -genuine- concern about the state of the longitudinals on the car, and I know there was also concern when I mentioned a body strengthening kit had been added. A cursory look at the longitudinals showed black tar, save what looked like what -might- be slight bit of rust down by the front driver's side jack point. It was then I noticed 'well, um.. that metal that makes up the back side of the front trunk looks the wrong colour. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif) I don't have a picture of the trunk metal, but it is -surface- rust so I know with some effort and no welding, I'll be OK. The usual 'boy it's a good thing you brought it to us, because this, this, and this was also wrong, but we done gone fixed it fer ye!' situation (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

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This is the best I could provide of a longitudinal au-natural, I was quickly running out of voltage, but along the driver's side, nothing making me wish I went into coin collecting instead

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This warrants further exploring during the process, but I fear both creeper and myself are too fat to get that far forward for me to attack with my spinning harbor freight wheel of death.

at this point, not seeing anything on the passenger's side yet under the car to cause concern, I remembered 'wait, you had what resembled Nietzsche's void on the passenger's side just behind the ECU. So I decided It was time to try and explore the Event Horizo....er, I mean passenger's upper floor pan.

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CAN YOU SEEEEEEEEEE!!??? (last of the Event Horizon jokes..I think?)

I carefully unbolted the ECU and wiring, moved it out of the way, removed the seat belt bolt and carpeting. Then it was time to get to work. I think it worth pointing out that under the ECU the Floor pan was perfect, like depressingly exactly what a healthy piece of metal should look like. For the most part I'm seeing mild surface rust, but rust none the less that gets exceedingly worse looking until the firewall....And that's when I saw -it-

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I know everything can be patched, but my hope (stupid as it is) -had- been to get the car prepped, temporarily get a seat in the driver's side and drive it to a place with a lift to help the welder out. What I see here instead is the lower firewall on the passenger's side has not fared well at all. One could surmise that if time is the fire in which we burn, this wall has fared about as well as Pink's in the Seminal "the Wall' Album (At least I've been comfortably numb about all this today! yay Pink Floyd!)

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They say cars can sometimes talk to you. I was talking back in this one...

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Here is the sign of the beast close up. I'm new to the concept of 'welding in chunks' so I'm hoping someone might chime in with "Dave you don't have to drop the motor and transaxle, but you'll have to be very careful to weld in a new panel." but what I'm expecting is 'nope, lolz, better get some more of those wood shims to prop the floor jacks on so the motor can clear the car!'....I know it's 'easy' to drop the motor, but, again, scope creep.

I switched tactics at this point and went back to 'chisel and beat the ever loving shit out of the urethane until it flies up at me' tactic to clear up more of the metal. Below is the length of the floor pan as it joins up to the center support post. Note the 'gentle singularity' in the right hand side of the photo

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Sadly there's no time dilation effect or red shift, just the red mist descending... see what I did there... slowly? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

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I wanted again to contrast where the ECU was mounted and what I am led to believe a healthy floorpan looks like.

Switching back and forth on the type of wire brush I was using I wanted to now dig into the area around the chassis/frame and where it meets up with the floor pan. At the very edge you can see distortion that I'm going to classify as rust meaning the tip of the pan at least is in a bad way. That said, the area around the seat mounts doesn't show any signs of concrete garage floor and the slip'n'slide adventure I would have encountered one day (probably in a tight turn at speed, let's be honest) but I'm not quite feeling 'nope, we'll be good' just yet. I noticed some creases in the urethane coating just forward of the cross sectional bar. I didn't get a chance to crack into.

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Foregoing another heady picture of Gargantua there in the firewall, here's what the back corner of the passenger's side looks. The optimistic part of me goes "yessss, it's time for pizza....It also then notes that again the damage appears localized to the upper floor pan.

By this point I was about at the end of my third battery pack and so I had to... -pack- it in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) One final shot of the corner before I go though;

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My neighbors did cheerily wave before leaving apparently having come to see me dressing up as a space man as normal for a weekend. So there is that.


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burton73
post Sep 15 2018, 02:24 PM
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Dave,

I love your writing style. You are a funny guy.

Really do not get freaked out. Your car is really not that bad. It is not going to fall apart but as Brent has pointed out getting a good look at the clutch tube in the center of the car will tell you if you should go in and fix what was a very weak point for our cars. Lots of guys have had to fix this area and you can read up on that.

My 6 needed work there so the replacement of pans was the answer as I got a clear shot at all of its parts. I Fixed up the clutch tube in what I hope will be the last time in its life. Heavier clutches put more stress on this area as well.

You can just buy a cheap electric drill motor if you want to go to town removing to coatings.

Battery drills use too much battery if trying to clean a lot of surface. I used lots of different tools attached to my air compressor but I have a very big compressor.

Brent’s car had so much rust that I told him he should try to find a better body for it but he has fixed it up to a very high standard right at his home. I have been more than impressed with his work.

Be very careful with spinning wire brushes.

Best Bob B


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VaccaRabite
post Sep 15 2018, 04:30 PM
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For the rest of the tar - dry ice.

Get some dry ice. Place the bag of dry ice on the tar and let it sit for a few minutes. Move the bag of ice and hit the tar with a hammer. It will come of in big chunks, really easy. Not much grinding needed.

Your pin holes are just that, pin holes. You will be able to weld them shut without issue.

Zach
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bbrock
post Sep 15 2018, 04:57 PM
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Thanks for the compliments Bob. It wasn't THAT rusty though. Just a couple small pieces.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1530897978.jpg)

And FWIW, my wife still thinks I should get a better body. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

So Dave, you don't have to drop the motor and transaxle. Like Zach said, most of these are pinholes that can be zapped shut. That lower part of the firewall where the tinworms bit yours is double walled so even if you cut that out to patch, you still won't be inside your engine compartment. I see nothing here that would keep me from putting a seat in and driving the car. You were smart and caught this early before it became a big problem. Nicely done! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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davesprinkle
post Sep 16 2018, 10:29 AM
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Dave, your writing is hilarious. Love your style.
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davebrossi
post Sep 18 2018, 09:39 PM
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QUOTE(burton73 @ Sep 15 2018, 02:24 PM) *

Dave,

I love your writing style. You are a funny guy.

Really do not get freaked out. Your car is really not that bad. It is not going to fall apart but as Brent has pointed out getting a good look at the clutch tube in the center of the car will tell you if you should go in and fix what was a very weak point for our cars. Lots of guys have had to fix this area and you can read up on that.

My 6 needed work there so the replacement of pans was the answer as I got a clear shot at all of its parts. I Fixed up the clutch tube in what I hope will be the last time in its life. Heavier clutches put more stress on this area as well.

You can just buy a cheap electric drill motor if you want to go to town removing to coatings.

Battery drills use too much battery if trying to clean a lot of surface. I used lots of different tools attached to my air compressor but I have a very big compressor.

Brent’s car had so much rust that I told him he should try to find a better body for it but he has fixed it up to a very high standard right at his home. I have been more than impressed with his work.

Be very careful with spinning wire brushes.

Best Bob B


Hi Bob! (Again!)

I have a weird situation in that I live in a -very- accepting of my crazy restoration work apartment complex that, none the less, has not gifted my tiny garage with the magic spark-wot-makes-lights-go-bing! and so everything's cordless. I actually own a small pancake compressor, and my plan for cutting the pans out was essentially (and I'll admit this is a rough early draft of the plan, the future one will probably actually work and involve sanity) carry it across the road, plug it in, pressurize it, carry it back, use an angle grinder, rinse, repeat, vaguely leave the neighbors uneasy as to what sort of relay race I'm taking part in.

I noticed the recommendation for dry ice, and, provided I can avoid the fate of the T1000 and not inadvertently shatter the remains of the pan (and my arm, without a nice and close furnace I'll never turn into mercury and reform!) I'd be willing to give it a try.

I know my progress is glacially slow right now because I'm depending on cordless, so tips are appreciated. On the plus side I own an LP-gas fired Ventless heating system (replete with onboard CO detector and a wall mounted one for good measure) so winter will not halt my endeavor.
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davebrossi
post Sep 18 2018, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE(bbrock @ Sep 15 2018, 04:57 PM) *

Thanks for the compliments Bob. It wasn't THAT rusty though. Just a couple small pieces.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1530897978.jpg)

And FWIW, my wife still thinks I should get a better body. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

So Dave, you don't have to drop the motor and transaxle. Like Zach said, most of these are pinholes that can be zapped shut. That lower part of the firewall where the tinworms bit yours is double walled so even if you cut that out to patch, you still won't be inside your engine compartment. I see nothing here that would keep me from putting a seat in and driving the car. You were smart and caught this early before it became a big problem. Nicely done! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)


I'm going to reply with the one out of two quotes I remember from Down Periscope; "I feel like I need a tetanus shot just looking at her."
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davebrossi
post Sep 19 2018, 07:02 PM
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QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ Sep 15 2018, 04:30 PM) *

For the rest of the tar - dry ice.

Get some dry ice. Place the bag of dry ice on the tar and let it sit for a few minutes. Move the bag of ice and hit the tar with a hammer. It will come of in big chunks, really easy. Not much grinding needed.

Your pin holes are just that, pin holes. You will be able to weld them shut without issue.

Zach


Hi Zach!

Just wanted to confirm before I start another thread about 'went to remove some tar, removed my hand' that the dry ice will really just make the tar more cooperative on my efforts to remove it and not cause the floor pan to make a break for freedom. I really am thick headed (need sized extra large hats and all!) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif)

Regarding welding pin hole rust shut, I guess I need to become better oriented with my new best friend, the rust beetle, I was under the impression that when you have rust of this nature (or worse, I've seen the worse by now, sweet mother of all I've seen bad) the only option was 'cut around the portal to hell, weld in new plate, pray to the flying spaghetti monster that you've banished the rot, and move forward.' So I wont need plates, but a new weld seam will work? I appreciate all the help, I truly do, I know I've been driving people nuts talking about the process.
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Rusty
post Sep 19 2018, 07:33 PM
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Dave,

Breathe. Relax. Listen.

You do not have serious rust issues. Left alone for years without treatment, that would change.

What you have so far is relatively minor rust in a 45 year old car that was assembled with piss-poor priming and no galvanized steel by Hans after a 2-liter lunch.

This is all fixable... and you can weld. Seriously, I'm the most untalented hack on the planet and I figured it out. So can you. And when you're done, it's the greatest feeling in the world. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

best,
Rusty

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JRust
post Sep 19 2018, 10:12 PM
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Dang I just drove through there this past weekend Dave. My daughter is going to School in Rexburg. If I get out there before thanksgiving again. I'll shoot you a PM. Love to talk 914's so would be cool to check out your ride. Your doing great as well. For removing the tar I loved the cheap harbor freight vibrating sander with the metal tips. Sander
Worked awesome on mine years ago
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VaccaRabite
post Sep 20 2018, 07:56 AM
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There are three ways to remove tar.

1) mechanical removal. Wire wheel. This was SUCKS! The wheel clogs, the tar melts and gets thrown everywhere and ends up smearing more then being removed.

2) torch and scraper. Heat the tar with a MAP torch and scrape up the goo with a stout scraper. It works, but it puts out smoke that you don't want to be breathing, and if you don't have the full interior out of your car there is risk or burning wires or catching something on fire.

3) Dry ice and a hammer/scraper. Essentially this is the exact opposite of the torch and scraper. You are freezing the tar. No fumes, no fire risk, it comes off in big chunks, and its a cool task if the day is already hot. The downside is that you have to find dry ice. You will not hurt your floor pans doing this unless they are so far gone that the tar is all that is holding them together. In your case, this is NOT the case.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c2.staticflickr.com-1435-1537451814.1.jpg)
This is the rear floor pan out of my 2002. The rust is a lot worse then your 914 and the tar came up pretty easily using dry ice.

Zach
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bbrock
post Sep 20 2018, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE(davebrossi @ Sep 19 2018, 07:02 PM) *

Regarding welding pin hole rust shut, I guess I need to become better oriented with my new best friend, the rust beetle, I was under the impression that when you have rust of this nature (or worse, I've seen the worse by now, sweet mother of all I've seen bad) the only option was 'cut around the portal to hell, weld in new plate, pray to the flying spaghetti monster that you've banished the rot, and move forward.' So I wont need plates, but a new weld seam will work? I appreciate all the help, I truly do, I know I've been driving people nuts talking about the process.


I think it's still too early to know what you'll need to do. Probably a combination of zapping pinholes, some sheet metal patches, and treating with rust converter to stop the rot before painting. Zapping a few pinholes shut takes some finesse to avoid blowing out bigger holes, but is often easier than a patch, but you reach a point where a patch is easier than than zapping a bunch of pinholes or trying to restore pitted metal that doesn't want to be restored. The beauty of the floor replacement is that all the rust comes off at once and replaced with shiny new metal in just the right shape.

Right now, just focus on getting the rest of the tar off, wire brush any rusted or pitted areas to knock the tinworm turds off so you can see how solid the metal is, and hopefully @JRust can swing by and give some advice next time he visits his daughter. I wish I was sill working on a project that was taking me to Pocatello every now and again because I could do the same, but the money dried up on that one.
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davebrossi
post Sep 22 2018, 02:33 PM
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So! Today was play with dry ice day! Wheeee! Finding it was actually more challenging than one might think, but I eventually bought seven pounds of the stuff, and rushed home to get started.

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Quick note on dry ice; works better if you're watering your Porsche slightly as while it's an arid pla...err.. car, in this instance water helps your success grow!

I've found since water to tar contact makes for a fast freeze and helps make the material more brittle I played a drinking game with the car. You, too, at home can play this game! You pretend to take a drink of water, then dribble it on and around the chunk of dry ice. You'll be sober the whole time, and everyone loves that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

That said, above all else, keep your hands dry, so as a rule of thumb (unless you want to lose the tip of yours), if your hands are wet, use a stick to move the ice around. I wore gloves, so I still have my finger tips, though scraping bits of coating out did not keep the hands dry. Make sure to marinade your floor pans at least a minute or so before playing whack a mole, it seemed to work better for me. Also this served to interrupt the random teenage romance blossoming across the breezeway from the garage which I insisted on drowning out with hammering because I'm an evil shrew who hates anyone having any fun. Ever. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

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So as you can see, I was correct in my suspicion that if everything seems to be going perfectly, you're not paying attention (one of Murphey's many axioms, oh how this came back to haunt me later!) and 'cracked' urethane means a 45 year old pinata filled with happy little rust candy waiting to be pummeled.

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So here's where I put it all together regarding how to turn tar into tarlettes, but I spread the dry ice out to various points hoping to attack multiple areas and not at all because I accidentally swatted the block with the hammer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

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As you can see those 'little elves' Porsche talked about in their promotional videos circa the 1960s were annoyingly consistent with beads of adhesive, but also that below the paint after the first two depressions in the pan, things are looking almost 'good' (loaded term there!) I hope those elves were at least inconvenienced at times like I've been here.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

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Just forward of the cross member, this was the most corrosion damage seen on the passenger's side top to bottom, with at least one pinhole in the pan where it joined with the center 'tunnel.'

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The corner where the cross member joins the 'tunnel' you can see appears to be a surface rust paradise where all the cool metal goes to... something... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

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Here's the pinhole I was talking about, no deal killer, but hello concrete!

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Reminds me a little of the stories of pioneers relying on buffalo chips being as a fuel source. Don't think I'll be trying that here....

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YOUR WINNER! (That's a PC game Big Rigs joke) as I reached the end of the floor pan on the passenger's side relatively unscathed.

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More of the area I can go back to, but I'm confident it's in good nick

By now I'd gotten almost completely to the bottom drudging up scraps of coating and beyond those first two depressions things were surprisingly healthy looking. I mean, go back with my 5000 watt A/C Inverter and deep cycle marine battery powered random orbital sander (thanks, scope creep (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) ) and I'd be good to go. With the job done here however I knew I wanted to switch over to the driver's side. Call it a feeling?

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The problem here became apparent once I transplanted the ice over and got to working out emotional trauma on the coating near the driver's side footwell/ continued my evil scheme to deny young love next door (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) . There's a lot of rust there, like night and day difference between here and the passenger's side.

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If you look closely (it's too dark to be dramatic) essentially everything the camera's imaging sensor picked up that isn't black, is deep rust. peeking below the car I noticed water dripping down now that I'd fractured the protective coating.

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Looking at the metal here, the shallow depression portions of the pan are not completely eaten through, but a good whack with a bladed screw driver would likely go right through. Bugger...

I stopped because I had my answer more or less. So to recap;

Driver's side upper pan, on it's way to canonization as holy mother of holes. Passenger's upper pan, other than the pin hole, a bit of surface rust, but nothing scope creep sanding wont fix. Passenger's side lower pan, looks damned good, I'm pretty happy other than the first two depressed areas which need a good Prozac like sanding to lift their spirits. Driver's side lower pan; LV426 man, I say take off and nuke the whole site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

My concerns about pin prick rust in and around the center tunnel make me lean more towards replacement of both pans and jack points to be on the safe side, but that could be overkill. even though there is good metal on the passenger's side, it'd still a gamble, yeah?

Now for a stupid question (I always have many.) I don't suppose restoration design's metal is galvanized? I mean, part of me is hoping, but that's a whole lot of extra expense even if they've got the market cornered.


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davebrossi
post Sep 22 2018, 02:43 PM
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https://youtu.be/TLN68M6rcrQ
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rhodyguy
post Sep 22 2018, 02:50 PM
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out.
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