914 vs. 912, need input Options

[Z Driver]

I've been looking at 914's for a while as an auto-x car/fun driver. I receltly saw a 912 (pretty beat up) in my auto-x region and have fallen in love with that car. I like the idea of the early 911 styling with a four cylinder. I think the 911 shape up to the 993 generation are just so classy. There's a nice 912 I might take a look at but I need to know if I'll be walking into a car that will not compete well in auto-x. I know the 914 is a proven auto-x winner, but what about the 912 in HS or FSP? I just love the 912 and the extra power is nice but I don't want something I'd have to pour much money into and not have it at the level of a stock 914.

[VegasRacer]

QUOTE (Z Driver @ Jun 17 2005, 12:35 AM)

I need to know if I'll be walking into a car that will not compete well in auto-x.

Uhhh. YUP!

QUOTE

I don't want something I'd have to pour much money into and not have it at the level of a stock 914.

Yup again. That's exactly what you would have.

QUOTE

I think the 911 shape up to the 993 generation are just so classy.

I agree. If that is what you really want, then get a real 911.
The small motor in a big car make it a poser. (looks good but no go)
If you want a car that is fun to drive - get a 914. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif)
If you don't belive me - ask anybody here.

[redshift]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[MattR]

I have both... so i'll chime in.

The 914: I havent driven mine, only driven others and worked on mine, but its a solid car thats very fun to drive. It handles well and has power. Easy to work on (except a valve adjust), parts are relatively cheap, and it has the right idea as far as engine layout and center of gravity.

The 912: its a classic porsche. Its a blast to drive, its power band is peaky (which makes it a reasonable driver, but no fun up to 3.5k). Parts are expensive, engines are tough to come by, and by getting a 912 you fall in the 911 catagory, so the upgrades cost on par with guys why spend big bucks on early cars.

Im selling the 912. Its great to drive, but when Im done I'll have a 914 thats been gone through 100% by me versus an unknown (albiet strong) 912. Honestly, I dont think you can go wrong with either. Get in both and get your impression.

[ArtechnikA]

SWB cars are *extremely* nimble - wheelbase is what - 11" (!) less than a 914... they don't have as much weight in the back as a 911. it is getting *very* hard to find correct suspension for SWB cars. (go look for a pair of those SWB ball joints...)

that leaves the '69. had driveability issues as shipped - emissions rearing their ugly head on an engine designed for earlier, simpler times (a foreshadowing of the '76 914...).

i had a v-e-r-y early 912 and it was fun, but it was too rusty to do what i wanted and too expensive to restore. i bought a 914.6 instead.

IMO a LH 911 would be a better choice, at least from the value retention standpoint. for a car you're determined to keep forever, a 912 could be fun. watch out for rust, especially in the front pan and torsion tube.

i don't think there are any totally horrible Porsches (even the Cayenne makes a decent tow vehicle...) but some have more issues than others that require going in with your eyes open...

[xsboost90]

i drove a relativly stock 912, and stock vs. stock, i think i would take the 914 over the 12 for handling and fun. I really did like it though, and im sure it would hold its value better than a 914/4 as they are getting rare. If you could find a 912e then you would have the cheaper more reliable type4 and the cool body of the 912/911! IMO though, if im going to spend the money to restore a 911 body, it better have a 6!

[zymurgist]

QUOTE (xsboost90 @ Jun 17 2005, 03:44 AM)

IMO though, if im going to spend the money to restore a 911 body, it better have a 6!

The PO of my 911 is doing exactly that. He's building a SWB vintage racer (with twin plug heads!) and he's fixing up a rusty 912 shell. It makes no sense to cut up a perfectly good 912, but if you're starting with a tub that was thrown away in the first place, why not put a flat six in it?

[lapuwali]

I also have both: a '67 SWB 912 and a '71 914. In handling, there's no comparison. The 914 has it all over the 912. If I spent $2000 on the 912 suspension, I'd probably get it to be pretty nice, but if I spent $2000 on the 914 suspension, I'd move it out of the 912's reach, IMHO. So, if you're primarily looking for AX performance, go with the 914.

However, as a daily driver, the 912 is arguably the better car. More room, less noise, easier to get in and out of. A 912 set up for AX would be VERY uncomfortable on the street, however, with the ultra-short wheelbase. Mine is fairly stiff, and it does not ride well on the broken pavement pretending to be freeways here in the Bay Area. Set up for grand touring, it would be a nice road car, but only OK at AX.

Gas mileage on the 912 sucks, thanks to carbs and the short gearing (4K rpm at 70). A top end rebuild is comparable with the 914 in cost, but a bottom end rebuild is potentially much more expensive. Valve adjustments are 100x easier on the 912, and general engine access is much better.

I, too, am selling the 912 and keeping the 914. Nice car, but not really good enough in the daily driver stakes and not really good enough in the "running wild in the mountains" stakes. The 914 excels at the latter, and I'll buy some appliance for the former.

[buck toenges]

I got both. A 68 912 that I bought from camp 914 and a 71 914 with 3.2 motor but I use to have a 70 914 stock. My first love is and always will be the 70 914. My dad bought it when I was in 6th grade. Pop up headlights, wierd seating for 3, and so many trunk lids. Still love stock 914s.

The 68 912 actually looks small compared to my 914. Front bumper is lower. Roof is actually lower. It got some wide hip room in front BUT it drives and acts like a squashed down vw bug. Looks great from the outside but it handles, smells, and feels like a squashed bug. Ain't going to sell it. Ain't going to soup it up. Nice to have and it looks good driving down the road but thats it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[ken914]

I have a 912 motor in my '53 356. Take a good look at the cost of a correct rebuild on the 912 motor before you commit. To do it right, upgrade a bunch of things and get a SMALL increase in power you are looking at around 10k.

The 912 will cost you close to what an early 911 will cost and not be as desireable or as fun.

My advice, if you want 4 cylinder nostagia, get a 356. If you want to run an autocross or rip up a mountain road, get a 914 (preferrably a /6).

Check out the 356's, cool cars, nice group of people although mature compared to the 914 crowd. www.356registry.org

[tat2dphreak]

there's always the 912E... if you can find one... same engine as the '76 914s, (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wub.gif) but the 914 is still a better value and cheaper to work on

[greenie]

I thought about posting this awhile back, and now it's a relevant topic.

This car was just stripped & painted with some significant restoration by the same shop that is repainting my 914.

This very nice lady, a school teacher bought the car new in 1969. She had ordered a VW & the broker she was working with phoned her & told her about a cancelation he had on a 912 Porsche, she thought about it, three times the money but somehow she justified it.

She has used it as her daily driver since 1970. It is a beautiful car. Can you imagine the money that she has saved over the last 35 years even with all the maintenance, while driving a very cool car.

I thought this was just a great story . ( she did comment my 914 isn't a real porsche ........ Bitch )

[Britain Smith]

You could get a 912 and put a type-4 engine in it...add a turbo and you have what I am building.

-Britain

[Z Driver]

Thanks for all the replies. I already have a competive auto-x car (BS BMW M3) and have been very successful (I've placed first in my class in both events I attended). I've been wanting an auto-x car with less power so I can concentrate on the lines better. I'm trying to do the Porsche for under 10K things, so 356 is out. I'm also looking at already restored/good drivers, not projects. After what I spent doing my Z car, I don't really want another project right now.

I guess I need to ride in both cars. Is there anyone is the Clearwater/Tampa, Florida area will to give me a ride in a teener or 912?

[flatout]

In your profile,it says Columbia,MO.I guess you have moved?I am about 3 hours from Columbia and have a '69 912 and a '71 914 and would let you experience both.I like them both in their own way. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif)

[914ghost]

I wanna talk too!
I just sold my 70' 914, it was my Daily driver fro 3 years and it served me flawlessly. It was an AWESOME car.
The guy cam and got it- drove the thing home to Chicago without a hitch- perfect. It was so good that when the original engine in my 68' 912 took a dump I decided to go Type4.
I Put a stock 2.0L 914 engine in the thing and regeared using 914 3/4/5 gears.
I can tell you it's a whole new car. Absolutely incredible!
The 914 is like a go-kart compared, but the 912 is more of a "car".
My 914 was a 1.8L, good cam, and 40 Dellortos, and the 912 now is a 2.0. The 914 had a more fun "feel" to it, but when the 912 gets up and moving, man is it fun!!
It's a similar feel to my friends 2.4L 75' 911 - It's not quite as fast, not as peaky in power, and not as squirrely, but the power to performance feels similar.
I will add that the 914 would probably whup the 912 in an A/X unless some huge power / suspension difference existed in favor of the 912.
A stock 912 in my opinion is a weekend driver these days- just too costly to risk something breaking.
Bob O

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (914ghost @ Jun 17 2005, 06:04 PM)

I just sold my 70' 914, it was my Daily driver fro 3 years... I will add that the 914 would probably whup the 912 in an A/X...

musta been hard to park!

in some regions, a 912 will be in a different class than a comparably equipped 914. specifically, it may be a class without a lot of competition. for some people, competition is about winning, and part of winning is choosing your fight.

it's an essential motorsports question, because it gets to the heart of "what do you want?" if you want to drive fast and have fun, that's cool! but for some, it's about the winning...

[Cap'n Krusty]

QUOTE (Z Driver @ Jun 16 2005, 11:35 PM)

I've been looking at 914's for a while as an auto-x car/fun driver. I receltly saw a 912 (pretty beat up) in my auto-x region and have fallen in love with that car. I like the idea of the early 911 styling with a four cylinder. I think the 911 shape up to the 993 generation are just so classy. There's a nice 912 I might take a look at but I need to know if I'll be walking into a car that will not compete well in auto-x. I know the 914 is a proven auto-x winner, but what about the 912 in HS or FSP? I just love the 912 and the extra power is nice but I don't want something I'd have to pour much money into and not have it at the level of a stock 914.

"Extra power"? What extra power? The 912 had about 90 HP, the 2 litre 914 about the same. 1.7s are down a bit, but there aren't a lot of stock 1.7s around anymore. The 912 is peaky enough that you'd never notice any extra power. Major rebuild time is at about 100K miles, the cranks are fragile, the cases are usually worn enough to need a reconditioning (or they're cracked), the heads are fragile, the valves are major dollars, and there are VERY few machine shops that ate really qualified to do the work. VERY few. Start at around $4k to do a motor, add more if the crank is bad ($1200, give or take), and the heads or the case are in need of major work. Try $400 for an oil cooler, and they DO go bad. I can do a 2 litre 911 for close to that, and they last twice as long. That said, I've owned a number of them, and like 'em a lot. Just sold one, matter of fact. The SWB 911 is a keeper, though. The Cap'n

[Z Driver]

QUOTE (flatout @ Jun 17 2005, 12:20 PM)

In your profile,it says Columbia,MO.I guess you have moved?I am about 3 hours from Columbia and have a '69 912 and a '71 914 and would let you experience both.I like them both in their own way. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif)

I'm still somewhat in Columbia. I'm staying at my family's place in Florida until Tuesday. I go to college in Columbia and live there ~9 months out of the year. I'm currently living at the Lake of the Ozarks (Camdenton, MO) for a few more months.

[flatout]

Lake of the Ozarks is also about 3 hours from here.When you get back in Missouri,get in touch and we'll go from there. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)