What class to run competitively? Options

[RFoulds]

Preparing a new race car build. Would like to run. Fairly stock 2.0 and don’t want to get into a class where the 914 won’t be competitive. If I have a fully caged and braced tub, modified suspension, modest weight reduction and a stock but carbed 2.0, what class would you suggest would be competitive to build toward? For VARA, POC, SVRA most likely.
Looking through all their GCR’s and classifications, there seems to be a few different ways to go.
Suggestions from those that have been there would be appreciated.

[2mAn]

Preparing a new race car build. Would like to run. Fairly stock 2.0 and don’t want to get into a class where the 914 won’t be competitive. If I have a fully caged and braced tub, modified suspension, modest weight reduction and a stock but carbed 2.0, what class would you suggest would be competitive to build toward? For VARA, POC, SVRA most likely.
Looking through all their GCR’s and classifications, there seems to be a few different ways to go.
Suggestions from those that have been there would be appreciated.

Depending on how modified it is or at least how modified looks, you fall in D-Production with VARA, which is the group Ive been prepping my Datsun Roadster for.

Theres VARA-University on 2/2 & 2/3 next year. I plan to be there, but Im not 100% sure which car I will be there in...

The biggest thing is reading the rules closely, and finding a group you can run with. I think in SoCal VARA is your best bet

[Racer]

I would encourage attending events by the various groups.. talk to any 914 owners actually out there running to get the scoop.. What did they build and why? How do they like it? What would they have done differently? - Car/Class/Organization etc.

Racing = $$$, no matter how you look at it. Do you want to win your class or just run with other 914s? And as mentioned, always Read the Rulebook First!

[Jetsetsurfshop]

Bob from Naro Motorsports was telling me that his PCA region created a vintage class. I thought this was interesting. I can't remember the details, maybe he'll chime in and share.
Attending events and see whats going on in your area is a great idea. I mean, I love my 914 but the E30's and the Spec Miata's race hard and have a lot of competition. I did notice that my race group (NASA) has a great Spec 944 class running in the middle of the country and we have one guy signed up for next weekend at Sebring. I would hate to have no one to mix it up with. He gets a first place trophy every event!
You can also just make a 914 fit somewhere. Theres a couple 914's that have an LS engine that eat Corvettes and 911's all day long. It only takes money. You can make anything work with enough cash!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Jetsetsurfshop]

I was just looking at the original post.
NASA has a HP to weight class.
My car has a 2258 with a cam and carbs.
I had to add some weight but I fall into the ST5 class. They have a calculator that pretty cool.
Heres the link.

https://form.jotform.com/drivenasa/st-tt-ca...sification-form

I'm racing next weekend against a Miata and a CRX. Will see how I do...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Racer]

PCA Club Racing does offer some vintage classes now... I believe they are displacement based...ie.. Over 2.5liters and Under 2.5liter for example. I could be off on the size, but its been away to get the "older" cars and drivers back from the garage and on the track without the need to compete against new GT3RS's etc.

[Driver174]

I’m running a 914/4 - 2.0 with VARA in DP class. My car seems to be competitive, but required engine modifications beyond stock. Sticking with stock bore and stroke as required by class rules, I found that extensive engine work was needed along with a good exhaust system.

Jim

[2mAn]

I’m running a 914/4 - 2.0 with VARA in DP class. My car seems to be competitive, but required engine modifications beyond stock. Sticking with stock bore and stroke as required by class rules, I found that extensive engine work was needed along with a good exhaust system.

Jim

Hey Jim

What are the fast cars in DP? Ive been on the fence about taking the plunge with my Datsun Roadster 2000 and making it into a racecar or buying one thats already done.

-Simon

[Driver174]

I’m running a 914/4 - 2.0 with VARA in DP class. My car seems to be competitive, but required engine modifications beyond stock. Sticking with stock bore and stroke as required by class rules, I found that extensive engine work was needed along with a good exhaust system.

Jim

Hey Jim

What are the fast cars in DP? Ive been on the fence about taking the plunge with my Datsun Roadster 2000 and making it into a racecar or buying one thats already done.

-Simon

I think the Roadsters are in EP, but are usually grouped with DP on the track.

There seems to be a number of fast Triumph's in DP; I think they are pretty light, and are driven by very talented pilots.


Jim

[stownsen914]

Re: the vintage classes from PCA Club Racing, below is a summary from their web site. Full 2018 rulebook at http://pcaclubracing.org/wp-content/upload...acing-Rules.pdf

PCA Vintage Group Club Racing is open to 1983 and older AIR COOLED Porsches. PCA Club Racing Rules will be enforced for Safety. Note that the rules now require full cages not just roll bars. The PCA Club Racing Rules are available here.

There will be six Vintage classes:
•Four cylinder over and under 2.0L (V4O, V4U),
•Six cylinder over and under 2.4L (VO, VU), and
•Six cylinder over and under 3.0L (VGTO, VGTU) high winged and/or aero bodies.

As such, engine displacement is open, but must be air-cooled. Tires are open.

Vintage Group entrants will not run for PCA National Points. Accordingly, the normally required Data Collection Plug is waived. (See CR Rules). Membership in PCA is required. All drivers must have a current PCA Competition License. (See CR Rules to see the Qualifications. It is simple to apply.)

New Licensees are advised to have their license paperwork submitted well in advance of an event. ALL licensing questions should be directed to Susan Shire.

As with the regular racing program, PCA Vintage Club Race events register through ClubRegistration.net.

Submit questions to:

Fred Pfeiffer
PCA Club Racing Vintage Coordinator
fpfeiffer@atlanticbb.net
301.707.9472

[MikeSpraggi]

Re: the vintage classes from PCA Club Racing, below is a summary from their web site. Full 2018 rulebook at http://pcaclubracing.org/wp-content/upload...acing-Rules.pdf

PCA Vintage Group Club Racing is open to 1983 and older AIR COOLED Porsches. PCA Club Racing Rules will be enforced for Safety. Note that the rules now require full cages not just roll bars. The PCA Club Racing Rules are available here.

There will be six Vintage classes:
•Four cylinder over and under 2.0L (V4O, V4U),
•Six cylinder over and under 2.4L (VO, VU), and
•Six cylinder over and under 3.0L (VGTO, VGTU) high winged and/or aero bodies.

As such, engine displacement is open, but must be air-cooled. Tires are open.

Vintage Group entrants will not run for PCA National Points. Accordingly, the normally required Data Collection Plug is waived. (See CR Rules). Membership in PCA is required. All drivers must have a current PCA Competition License. (See CR Rules to see the Qualifications. It is simple to apply.)

New Licensees are advised to have their license paperwork submitted well in advance of an event. ALL licensing questions should be directed to Susan Shire.

As with the regular racing program, PCA Vintage Club Race events register through ClubRegistration.net.

Submit questions to:

Fred Pfeiffer
PCA Club Racing Vintage Coordinator
fpfeiffer@atlanticbb.net
301.707.9472

By the way, this a great vintage group to run with. Hope more Club race events include the vintage class. This season I ran with them at Lime Rock, Monticello Motor Club, NJMP Thunderbolt and Summit Point. Check out some of the videos on YT.

[Heater Guy]

Preparing a new race car build. Would like to run. Fairly stock 2.0 and don’t want to get into a class where the 914 won’t be competitive. If I have a fully caged and braced tub, modified suspension, modest weight reduction and a stock but carbed 2.0, what class would you suggest would be competitive to build toward? For VARA, POC, SVRA most likely.
Looking through all their GCR’s and classifications, there seems to be a few different ways to go.
Suggestions from those that have been there would be appreciated.

You could run SCCA Road Racing in Class E Production or F Production, depending on modifications.

If you go to SCCA Rules and checkout those classes. Albert from SanJose runs a 914-4 I think in EP.

Check it out. here is a sample.

[Brett W]

I would not recommend SCCA with any four cylinder 914. They just can't make the power reliably.

[brant]

I would also point out that PCA vintage classes run a formula for HP/ltr

It may have changed
but it used to be around 110hp/ltr as I recall
that is a very hard to achieve number in an air cooled car
a twin plug -6 has a chance if enough money is thrown at it

a 4 cylinder type4 motor is really.... really challenged to reach that number. the amount of money you would have to put into a 2.0 type 4 motor to reach 220hp at an honest 2liters is measured in the wheel barrows....

maybe the rules have changed
but pca is not a friendly venue to race a type4

vintage racing is where you can meet all of your wish list

[ThePaintedMan]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) SCCA has always been more friendly to water-pumpers and the 914 was crippled from the beginning. Chris Foley is one of the few people to be competitive with a 914 and only he can tell you what he spent engineering his car to do so. I have fun tooling around at the back of the SCCA vintage class with MGAs and other small-bore cars with a stock 1.8L. Eventually I'll swap in a Subaru motor and just go have fun in Champcar. We also happen to have an ITX class locally which allows engine swaps in SCCA, but it's just another place for Champcar/Lemons cars to race.

[Brett W]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Physics has always been more friendly to water-pumpers and the 914 was crippled from the beginning. Chris Foley is one of the few people to be competitive with a 914 and only he can tell you what he spent engineering his car to do so. I have fun tooling around at the back of the SCCA vintage class with MGAs and other small-bore cars with a stock 1.8L. Eventually I'll swap in a Subaru motor and just go have fun in Champcar. We also happen to have an ITX class locally which allows engine swaps in SCCA, but it's just another place for Champcar/Lemons cars to race.

Fixed that for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[GregAmy]

914 2L goes to EP where it has to compete with some big-buck cars like Matt Reynold's Miata. Chris believes a 2L can be competitive in EP but it would take development.

914 1.7L and 1.8L are in FP against...Eric Prill's Miatas. Or Joe Huffaker's Midget. And Hondas.

No car will be "competitive" (read: able to win a championship) in Production without major investment and development. They may look straightforward and simple but there'$ $ome $erious dollar$ in development in that category.

Doesn't mean you can't go there and have some fun. I'm actually giving half-ass thought to selling the Super Touring Under car and just "playing" in EP with the 914; depends on how some support contracts work out. The Runoffs this year is at VIR and it will be one WHALE of an event, possibly with participation approaching what we saw at Indy in 2017. We'll see.

Up here in the Northeast I play in ITEZ, a catch-all SCCA Regional class that only requires Improved Touring-level safety equipment and DOT tires. But since it's a catch-all and there's no prep limits/regs/enforcement then it's just another place to play 'cause some guy will show up with a Turbo Porsche or another one with a Mustang.

Vintage/historics is the same. Anyone that thinks those guys are keeping the prep level of their cars to 'historic' levels is fooling themselves. I run with some groups up here (VRG, HRG, SVRA) and there's some $seriou$ development, just to go faster. But it's a nice place to play (in front of crowds sometimes like at the Lime Rock Labor Day Weekend Festival).

With "a stock but carbed 2.0" I'd suggest focusing attention on dependability and where and with whom you'd like to play, and less on how "competitive" you might be. Because no matter how much money you spend, there's always someone else out there willing to spend more. You need to find your water level.

And in the end you'll enjoy the fun more, right?

[naro914]

I would also point out that PCA vintage classes run a formula for HP/ltr

It may have changed
but it used to be around 110hp/ltr as I recall
that is a very hard to achieve number in an air cooled car
a twin plug -6 has a chance if enough money is thrown at it

a 4 cylinder type4 motor is really.... really challenged to reach that number. the amount of money you would have to put into a 2.0 type 4 motor to reach 220hp at an honest 2liters is measured in the wheel barrows....

maybe the rules have changed
but pca is not a friendly venue to race a type4

vintage racing is where you can meet all of your wish list

Just saw this thread.
See above about post from stownsend914 about PCA Vintage classes. Has nothing to do with hp/ltr...that's GT classes, which is one reason PCA created the Vintage group because a lot of our older cars technically fall into GT class.

As Mike said...its a great group of people...some of the most fun racing I've ever had was with these guys!

Then again...I see you in California...I don't think we run any vintage group races in CA... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Brett W]

There will be a 914-6 competing in EP next year at a Runoff level. Will be interesting to see.

After looking at the rules, I think a 2.0 four could possible run pretty well. The engine could make the power. it could comfortably make 190hp, maybe 200. It is a level 1 prep so you could get the suspension nailed right.

It would take dedication to win in any of the Prod classes, but would be a fun project.

[ablesnead]

...It could comfortably make 200 hp.....really ! define comfortable...not a type 4 turning 8500 thats for sure