73 2.0 sat 5 years not starting... Options

[bmtrnavsky]

So a little history... The car is a basically stock fuel injected 73 2.0 4 cylinder. the only real changes made to it is it has an ignitor electronic ignition in it so no points to adjust and hydraulic lifters. About 5 years ago I was driving to work, and it did a weird thing where it ran up to about 5k RPM and was sorta stuck. It was difficult to start but would start and run fast with ether. I am assuming it was a vacuum leak of some sort that caused this issue.

Fast forward now... The place I worked was shut down, I moved from Seattle to East Texas, changed careers, got divorced spent some time as a single dad, and then re-married. Through all this, I continued to move her and keep her safe with the hope that one day I would be able to bring her back to life...

Well, now she is on jack stands in my garage. I pulled the tank, cleaned it and treated the light rust that was in there. I swapped out the fuel lines with fresh, changed the fuel filter, and in anticipation of the issue that put her into hibernation I changed out all the vacuum lines with the kit from AA.

While the fuel tank was out I did drop in a fresh battery, pull the plugs and clean them off. I also shot a little PB blaster down each cylinder and let that sit then added about a tablespoon of 2 cycle mix gas to each cylinder and spun it over to make sure it was lubed.

First 5 seconds it spun were VERY slow. however, once the oil got moving it spun fast and freely. it actually fired up and ran off whatever vaper was in the cylinders for about 10 seconds 3 or 4 times.

The fuel tank has 3 gallons of fresh fuel with a can of seafoam in it. Last night I cranked it several times but nothing really happened. It was slow to turn over again and voltmeter was reading about 10 volts so I threw it in the charger and went to bed. This morning the charger said still charging, but it was reading 12 volts on the cars voltmeter. I gace it a little shot of ether in the airbox, jumped in and turned it over and it spun fast and fired for about 5 seconds then died. cranked again ran 3 seconds rough, then died.

I can hear the fuel pump turn on before I crank it and it does sound like it wants to start, but isnt. I KNOW my lifters have leaked down, but I have had that happen before and it usually doesnt stop it from starting just takes about 1-2 minutes for them to fill back up and quiet down.

I really havent tried too hard to start it... maybe 3-5 minutes last night and again this morning. Is it possible that I just need to go out there with a strong battery and give it a go a few more times? Other than cleaning the fuel tank and replacing fuel and vaccume lines I can think of anything else that would stop it from starting. Is that little shot of ether to get'r going ok or can that hurt it somehow? I dont use much I just crack the airbox open shooot a little in and jump in and crank it.

What else should I be checking? It has spark because I can hear it firing. I guess I am assumptive it has fuel... I dont have an impressive assortment of tools just basic things but I follow instructions well and will be forever grateful if someone can help me get my baby fired up again.

Even better is if there is someone in East Texas who is willing to swing by and take a look. I miss the Everett bunch... so much knowlege there. Anyways... if people can give simple instructions, link to a video or whatever, I will do whatever I need to do and follow up here later.

Thanks!

[BeatNavy]

I don't think you can assume you have fuel. Injectors may be clogged, or something else upstream could be clogged. Pull the injectors and do the "jar test" and/or send them our for testing and servicing. Spark, fuel, compression, timing. You know you have at least two of things in some form or another to the point where the engine will at least fire.

Not sure what was the root cause of issue that sent your RPM's up so high - massive vacuum leak, stock throttle body/throttle cable - but I think you may want to check and service as much as you can with as long as the car has been sitting. I'd certainly do a valve adjustment.

[76-914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) it ain't getting fuel. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[bmtrnavsky]

The jar test is probably a good idea. I've never done that but I will try it. I don't think the cable was stuck it seems to have been a vacuum leak

I don't think you can assume you have fuel. Injectors may be clogged, or something else upstream could be clogged. Pull the injectors and do the "jar test" and/or send them our for testing and servicing. Spark, fuel, compression, timing. You know you have at least two of things in some form or another to the point where the engine will at least fire.

Not sure what was the root cause of issue that sent your RPM's up so high - massive vacuum leak, stock throttle body/throttle cable - but I think you may want to check and service as much as you can with as long as the car has been sitting. I'd certainly do a valve adjustment.

[bmtrnavsky]

BTW is the heavy concentration of seafoam an issue? The can says it will run on 100% Seafoam... Not sure I'd want to try that but I figured cleaning it out could not hurt.

[dflesburg]

fuel pump could be running backwards, check direction and wiring.

[TheCabinetmaker]

Or, your fuel lines are switched.

[ClayPerrine]

When trying to start a car, remember "FAST"

F Fuel
A Air
S Spark
T Timing


You have eliminated spark and timing because it will fire on Ether.

1. Make sure you have fuel to the fuel ring on the motor. There is a little fitting in the fuel line on one side to attach a fuel pressure gauge. Take out the tiny bolt, and put on a fuel pressure gauge. Cycle the key a few times and see if the pressure reads 28-32 psi. If it doesn't, then you have an issue with the fuel pump.

2. Make sure your injectors are working. Turn the key on, and once the fuel pump prime cycle has finished, lean your head in the engine compartment while you slowly open the throttle. You should hear the injectors clicking as the throttle is opened. IF not, you may have bad injectors. To find out if they are bad, get a noid light from FLAPS. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.tooltopia.com-1143-1540924721.1.jpg) Plug it in in place of one injector, and repeat the throttle opening test. If the light flashes, you need new injectors.

3. Using the noid light, test to see if it blinks while cranking the car over. The throttle test won't tell you it will inject fuel when the engine is turning over.

Considering the fuel pump runs the 2second prime, and the engine fires on ether, I would make an educated guess either you have no fuel pressure, or the injectors are bad.


I am in the DFW area. I would be happy to make a day trip to your place to help troubleshoot. Its only a three hour drive, and it gives us an excuse to visit another 914 owner.

Clay

[bmtrnavsky]

That would be awesome! I think the next thing I may do is pull all 4 injectors and take them to get cleaned and serviced. That way at least we know it isn’t that. If you PM me I will send you my number and we can connect with text Facebook etc... I think it’s reasonable I have one or several gummed up injectors from sitting so long. Even if I don’t it will run better with them serviced. I do absolutely think I have a fuel issue though.

I may also shoot some sea foam through my rails and see if that helps. Cant hurt. Everything had brown gunky fuel stain.

When trying to start a car, remember "FAST"

F Fuel
A Air
S Spark
T Timing


You have eliminated spark and timing because it will fire on Ether.

1. Make sure you have fuel to the fuel ring on the motor. There is a little fitting in the fuel line on one side to attach a fuel pressure gauge. Take out the tiny bolt, and put on a fuel pressure gauge. Cycle the key a few times and see if the pressure reads 28-32 psi. If it doesn't, then you have an issue with the fuel pump.

2. Make sure your injectors are working. Turn the key on, and once the fuel pump prime cycle has finished, lean your head in the engine compartment while you slowly open the throttle. You should hear the injectors clicking as the throttle is opened. IF not, you may have bad injectors. To find out if they are bad, get a noid light from FLAPS. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.tooltopia.com-1143-1540924721.1.jpg) Plug it in in place of one injector, and repeat the throttle opening test. If the light flashes, you need new injectors.

3. Using the noid light, test to see if it blinks while cranking the car over. The throttle test won't tell you it will inject fuel when the engine is turning over.

Considering the fuel pump runs the 2second prime, and the engine fires on ether, I would make an educated guess either you have no fuel pressure, or the injectors are bad.


I am in the DFW area. I would be happy to make a day trip to your place to help troubleshoot. Its only a three hour drive, and it gives us an excuse to visit another 914 owner.

Clay

[Porschef]

All good advice here, on the right track. Unfortunately when a car sits for a long time, all fuel components including the gas tank itself can be culprits. I'd say start with pulling the tank, clean it and change the sock and filter. Blow out your lines, and if they're cruddy, consider replacement.

Injectors don't like to sit. They're probably in need of ultrasonic cleaning and new pintles, but if you do that without addressing what's getting pumped into them from the tank, you'll be wasting your time and $.

Good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) And that's a mighty fine offer from Mr. Perrine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[isdyl]

I remember I had D-jetronic fuel injection on an old Merc and it had some sets of points at the bottom of the distributor that fired the fuel injection. I’m not sure if it’s the same system but I had to clean and gap those points once when the injectors failed to ‘inject’ properly.

[76-914]

Muy importante. Remove the power from the coil when testing your injectors. If you leave the ignition switch on for more than 20-30 seconds you will fry the pick up module if you haven't removed the power source. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[72hardtop]

I'd pull the distributor as well. You may have a gummed up advance that is sticking.

[bmtrnavsky]

I did pull and clean the tank. treated it with acid, rewashed, sloped Marvel Mystery Oil around so it would not rust while it sat and reinstalled.

I didn't unwire the fuel pump so it should still be pumping the correct direction and I was pretty careful replacing fuel lines. They were different sizes so I think they are also all correct but I guess I could have screwed that up.

I need to buy a fuel injection pressure tester. I'm going to check that but I am also assuming the injectors are yucky and need cleaning. I'm planning to pull them and get them cleaned. Is there someone on the board that does that? How much does it cost? Once I know the injectors are not the issue I'll probably have Clay come down and help me sort the rest out if it still doesn't start, but I figure any way I look at it the car benefits from clean injectors.

[BeatNavy]

I'm planning to pull them and get them cleaned. Is there someone on the board that does that? How much does it cost?

I'm a fan: Mr Injector

Takes about week, costs $17.50/injector plus shipping. He's not a member of 914World (AFAIK), but he's done lots of Type IV injectors.

[mepstein]

I'm planning to pull them and get them cleaned. Is there someone on the board that does that? How much does it cost?

I'm a fan: Mr Injector

Takes about week, costs $17.50/injector plus shipping. He's not a member of 914World (AFAIK), but he's done lots of Type IV injectors.

He's done at least 120 - 911 injectors for our shop. We wouldn't keep going back if he wasn't excellent.
He installs new seals for that price.

[bmtrnavsky]

Cool, I'm going to pull them and ship them off soon. I really think this is at least a portion of my problem.

[iankarr]

+1 on Mr Injector. Great service. Only thing is I wouldn’t use the new elbows he ships with the refurbished injectors. Tangerine racing has pre-formed elbows which hold their shape much better without restricting flow...

[bmtrnavsky]

Good feedback. I certainly don't want to restrict flow at all. I was super busy last weekend but I'm definitely going to use Mr. Injector. His pricing for what he does is TOO good. I could get them cleaned for $12 locally, but he basically reconditions them and gives them an ultrasonic cleaning for $18 you can't beat that.

+1 on Mr Injector. Great service. Only thing is I wouldn’t use the new elbows he ships with the refurbished injectors. Tangerine racing has pre-formed elbows which hold their shape much better without restricting flow...