911 Front Suspension, Why? |
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911 Front Suspension, Why? |
Chi-town |
Nov 2 2018, 10:36 AM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 850 Joined: 31-August 18 From: Disneyland Member No.: 22,446 Region Association: Southern California |
Ok I understand swapping the struts for the 5 lug conversion.
The 930 tie rod swap makes sense. Why swap the arms, crossmember, torsion bars? The torsion bars are heavier and at a rate meant for a heavier car. The aluminum crossmember although it is lighter it is known to fail due to fatigue / corrosion The geometry of the arms looks to be identical, so no advantage there. So why spend the money on it? Help me understand why people spend the money. |
BK911 |
Nov 2 2018, 10:42 AM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 672 Joined: 19-February 04 From: Rocky Top, TN Member No.: 1,674 Region Association: None |
Bragging rights.
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rhodyguy |
Nov 2 2018, 10:45 AM
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#3
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,081 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Ventilated rotors independent of the hub and 5 lug wheels vs re-drilled nonvented 4 lug rotors for starters. Cool factor.
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toolguy |
Nov 2 2018, 10:48 AM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,268 Joined: 2-April 11 From: San Diego / El Cajon Member No.: 12,889 Region Association: Southern California |
instant stopping power
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worn |
Nov 2 2018, 10:49 AM
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#5
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can't remember Group: Members Posts: 3,156 Joined: 3-June 11 From: Madison, WI Member No.: 13,152 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Ok I understand swapping the struts for the 5 lug conversion. The 930 tie rod swap makes sense. Why swap the arms, crossmember, torsion bars? The torsion bars are heavier and at a rate meant for a heavier car. The aluminum crossmember although it is lighter it is known to fail due to fatigue / corrosion The geometry of the arms looks to be identical, so no advantage there. So why spend the money on it? Help me understand why people spend the money. Often this is available as a package from a wrecked car. Or used to be. That was my reason. I found that the torsion bars from that 1985 911 were just right. Of course the weight in those cars wasn't primarily in the nose end. I did have some issues with the belly pan, so it isn't all good. |
dr914@autoatlanta.com |
Nov 2 2018, 10:55 AM
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#6
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,866 Joined: 3-January 07 From: atlanta georgia Member No.: 7,418 Region Association: None |
you are right on the money, no reason what so ever. Even if one is racing, they can purchase bigger torsion bars to fit in the 914 a arms.
One of the reasons they do it though is that they buy the whole set up in one piece and just bolt it in in that one piece Ok I understand swapping the struts for the 5 lug conversion. The 930 tie rod swap makes sense. Why swap the arms, crossmember, torsion bars? The torsion bars are heavier and at a rate meant for a heavier car. The aluminum crossmember although it is lighter it is known to fail due to fatigue / corrosion The geometry of the arms looks to be identical, so no advantage there. So why spend the money on it? Help me understand why people spend the money. |
Chi-town |
Nov 2 2018, 10:58 AM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 850 Joined: 31-August 18 From: Disneyland Member No.: 22,446 Region Association: Southern California |
Some of you guys missed the part where I said I understand the struts (which would include the brakes).
I can get any rate torsion bar from Sway-a-way to fit the stock arms and torsion adjusters. So there is no advantage other than telling people you have 911 front suspension. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) |
mgphoto |
Nov 2 2018, 11:24 AM
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#8
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"If there is a mistake it will find me" Group: Members Posts: 1,339 Joined: 1-April 09 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 10,225 Region Association: Southern California |
911 availability is very good.
914 not so much. If a part crosses over to 914 land and you can use it, why not. |
John |
Nov 2 2018, 11:26 AM
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#9
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member? what's a member? Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Evansville, IN (SIRPCA) Member No.: 1,615 Region Association: None |
You are correct. There is no reason to swap A-Arms or the cross member unless one wants the aluminum cross member. Been running that way with just 911/930 struts/Brakes since 1988.
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914 Ranch |
Nov 2 2018, 11:40 AM
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#10
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Team Sharp where the 914 grow wings Group: Members Posts: 1,411 Joined: 29-January 16 From: TheNorth Shore Retreat. Deland Member No.: 19,611 Region Association: South East States |
I swapped the -4 back as the 911 stuff was too stiff. Changed my Elephantah bushings to the -4 arms and got a better ride. Carerror only weights in at 1609 lbs.
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jmitro |
Nov 2 2018, 11:46 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 713 Joined: 23-July 15 From: Oklahoma Member No.: 18,986 Region Association: None |
You are correct. There is no reason to swap A-Arms or the cross member unless one wants the aluminum cross member. Been running that way with just 911/930 struts/Brakes since 1988. +1; I'm only using 911 struts for the 5lug conversion and vented rotors. my A arms, torsion bars, and crossmember are still 914 |
mlindner |
Nov 2 2018, 12:05 PM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,522 Joined: 11-November 11 From: Merrimac, WI Member No.: 13,770 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I'm with jmitro, only struts/vented rotors...914 a-arms, cross member.
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SirAndy |
Nov 2 2018, 12:17 PM
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#13
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,651 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
So there is no advantage other than telling people you have 911 front suspension Ease of installation ... 6 bolts on top, 8 bolts on the bottom, done. No need to pop ball joints or any other some such nonsense. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-8-1148754291.jpg) |
porschetub |
Nov 2 2018, 01:27 PM
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#14
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,701 Joined: 25-July 15 From: New Zealand Member No.: 18,995 Region Association: None |
Not heard of a alloy cross member failing,they are a very sold casting,good enough for Porsche to use in there racing cars.
It has to be remembered that many of these conversions are done to high powered 6 cyl cars, better braking is important in that case. |
raynekat |
Nov 2 2018, 02:12 PM
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#15
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,158 Joined: 30-December 14 From: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Member No.: 18,263 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Not heard of a alloy cross member failing,they are a very sold casting,good enough for Porsche to use in there racing cars. It has to be remembered that many of these conversions are done to high powered 6 cyl cars, better braking is important in that case. I'd have to agree. Those alloy cross members don't fail by fatigue. I've extensively autocrossed and club raced a 911 will an aluminum cross member for going on 30 years. No issues at all. And corrosion on an alloy cross member? Certainly no worse than a steel cross member....I'd think better than bare steel. If you do change out the A-arms to 911 versions, you have to change out the torsions bars as well....you can't use 914 torsion bars in 911 A-arms. The spline count is different on the A-arms between 911 and 914's. Some choose to upgrade or increase the size of the torsion bars even on relatively stock 914's. Too me, they were too soft from the factory. Most stock 914's lean considerable in a turn and really nose dive under hard braking. Not exactly safe in my book. So a little more stiffness brings about nice cornering and stopping power without being too stiff, and adds a dimension of safety as well. I'm doing a narrow body conversion and to me the stock springs/torsion bars are just too soft for normal and performance street driving. The comment about more products available for 911's is true. I waited 9 months to get a set of 21mm 914 torsion bars. If I'd had the 911 A-arms, they were on the shelf. I believe the front wheel bearings on a 911 are larger and more robust than 914 versions. So as you can see there are many valid reasons to go with some 911 front suspension components. I think the last reason would be bragging rights....as least in my case. I wanted bigger brakes, better and lighter suspension components (alloy cross member and alloy S calipers). The only way for me was to go with some 911 components. Luckily it all bolts in. |
raynekat |
Nov 2 2018, 02:16 PM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,158 Joined: 30-December 14 From: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Member No.: 18,263 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Additionally, most of my suspension and brake components were so old, rusty and worn out that it was a great time to upgrade much of it.
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914forme |
Nov 2 2018, 02:44 PM
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#17
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None |
Torsion bars are larger if using the stock bar.
You want to run the underbody swayer to save pulling the tan, etc.... You have it out of the car so you can clean it up, and get it setup, cleaned and colored coated in your favorite coating. Everything else is the same. |
914Sixer |
Nov 2 2018, 03:01 PM
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#18
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,886 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Struts only for me. -6 brakes on 4 corners with 19mm master cylinder and factory sway bars. 16x6 reproduction Fuchs with 225 55 16.
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Larmo63 |
Nov 2 2018, 03:08 PM
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#19
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,264 Joined: 3-March 14 From: San Clemente, Ca Member No.: 17,068 Region Association: Southern California |
The only 914 parts left on my front end are the steering box and A arms. 21mm torsion bars and alloy crossmember. Elephant bushings.
The 3 1/2" 911SC front struts give you a few more brake caliper choices. I'm running a 911 belly pan which is heavier, but quite bombproof. Most of the stock 914 pans I've seen are battered. |
Chi-town |
Nov 2 2018, 03:11 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 850 Joined: 31-August 18 From: Disneyland Member No.: 22,446 Region Association: Southern California |
The more products for 911 only comes into play with torsion bars, everything else crosses over.
I've talked to the guys at Sway-a-way and it's 3-5 days to get a set of bars. I prefer the thru body sway bar for simplicity of design and service. I've seen a few failed aluminum crossmembers in my research. Nothing drastic mostly just hairline cracks and corrosion around the bolts. So performance vs money Stay with the 914 stuff, add good bushings and torsion bars and be happy. |
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