How tell if engine is running hot with a stock gauge cluster? Options

[Tdskip]

Yeah, I know, newbie question but seems better than trashing an engine.

EDIT - this car does not have the center gauge console.

I am about to put the '73 1.7 D-Jet into regular use and while it seems to run OK I am a touch nervous that I don't seem to have a way to monitor how hot it is getting.

Part of my jitters are that, while the car seems to start and run well, it am worried it might be too lean because when I shut it off the other day it dieseled for a couple of seconds.

I know that could be a leaky injector, but I could be a too hot engine temp (I think).

When I spray starting fluid around all of the vacuum lines while the car is running I do no get any RPM fluctuations.

Any tips / best practices to pass along?

Thanks!

[GregAmy]

This will help with the oil temp...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1201.photobucket.com-15565-1431205681.1.jpg)

[carl k]

The cars without the center console temperature gauges had a temperature indicator in the combination gauge. I don't know if all cars had these across all years (hopefully someone else will chime in).



-Carl

[Tdskip]

Good morning and thanks.

I'll get a better picture later but my cluster doesn't seem to have the temperature markings.

(IMG:https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/1973_porsche_914_1534196926ff9f98764daIMG_2011.jpg)

[GregAmy]

That's very unusual; I thought all 914s came with an oil temp gauge, either in the fuel combo gauge above or in the center console as part of the Appearance Group; maybe not? You have the Appearance group fuel combo.

I suspect someone replaced that combo gauge in the past and did not install the correct one. Slide out the gauge (use a butter knife or similar to pry it back out of the seal) and you'll probably find a green/black wire hanging out back there, unattached. Then, look under the bottom of the engine and see if you have another wire going into a sensor toward the front of the engine, the plate with the bump on it. Inside that plate is the oil temp sensor.

If the wire is still going in there, then maybe it's all still connected and all you need to do is replace the fuel combo with one that has the oil temp gauge. Those come up for sale all the time and you'll want the "silver dot" version to match the ones you have now.

http://www.p914.com/p914_gauges_combo.htm

If there's no wire going into the bottom of the engine, then you'll need to find where that wire is and reconnect it to the sensor. You almost assuredly have a sensor in there, as it is was removed the oil would drain out.

Alternatively, maybe your car had the Appearance Package and someone removed the center console gauges without replacing the fuel combo. That's less likely, however.

Time for some sleuthing, good luck!

Edit: nope, appears the 1973 1.7 without the Appearance Group did not come with a combo, per the page above,

...the fuel level / oil temperature combination gauge was introduced, but came only in 2.0L vehicles ordered without the optional "Appearance Group." For 1973 1.7L cars and 2.0L cars with the "Appearance Group," a standard fuel gauge (part number 914 641 102 40) was used.

So I'm guessing you probably do not have the sensor under the engine. But I'm also guessing that they used the same wiring harness for all cars so the wiring may be hanging out there somewhere...

Edit2: By the way, you can easily sand and reshoot that dash gauge surround. Each gauge will slide out of the rubber holding it in, then you can remove the rubber out, and then the gauges will fall back through the hole in the surround. The surround is held in by six Phillips head screws, easy to remove. Give it some sandpaper and ScotchBrite and rattle-can it with some flat-black enamel, install in reverse, it'll look as good as new.

[Tdskip]

That's very unusual; I thought all 914s came with an oil temp gauge, either in the fuel combo gauge above or in the center console as part of the Appearance Group; maybe not? You have the Appearance group fuel combo.

I suspect someone replaced that combo gauge in the past and did not install the correct one. Slide out the gauge (use a butter knife or similar to pry it back out of the seal) and you'll probably find a green/black wire hanging out back there, unattached. Then, look under the bottom of the engine and see if you have another wire going into a sensor toward the front of the engine, the plate with the bump on it. Inside that plate is the oil temp sensor.

If the wire is still going in there, then maybe it's all still connected and all you need to do is replace the fuel combo with one that has the oil temp gauge. Those come up for sale all the time and you'll want the "silver dot" version to match the ones you have now.

http://www.p914.com/p914_gauges_combo.htm

If there's no wire going into the bottom of the engine, then you'll need to find where that wire is and reconnect it to the sensor. You almost assuredly have a sensor in there, as it is was removed the oil would drain out.

Alternatively, maybe your car had the Appearance Package and someone removed the center console gauges without replacing the fuel combo. That's less likely, however.

Time for some sleuthing, good luck!

Edit: nope, appears the 1973 1.7 without the Appearance Group did not come with a combo, per the page above,

...the fuel level / oil temperature combination gauge was introduced, but came only in 2.0L vehicles ordered without the optional "Appearance Group." For 1973 1.7L cars and 2.0L cars with the "Appearance Group," a standard fuel gauge (part number 914 641 102 40) was used.

So I'm guessing you probably do not have the sensor under the engine. But I'm also guessing that they used the same wiring harness for all cars so the wiring may be hanging out there somewhere...

Edit2: By the way, you can easily sand and reshoot that dash gauge surround. Each gauge will slide out of the rubber holding it in, then you can remove the rubber out, and then the gauges will fall back through the hole in the surround. The surround is held in by six Phillips head screws, easy to remove. Give it some sandpaper and ScotchBrite and rattle-can it with some flat-black enamel, install in reverse, it'll look as good as new.

Thanks for the super helpful and detailed response. Very nice/kind/supportive/awesome for you to do that research for me - thanks!

It is less crapy of a car than the surround looks, will pull and blast and paint that soom - I just want to drive it at this point!

Let me wiggle the guage out and see what I have there, I think I may have a spare one.

[Tdskip]

Oops - sold the spare combination gauge.


Seems like I should really make sure I can monitor temps before using her.

[Tdskip]

Put the gauge and this is what I found, there is one that has a resistor in it that's not connected, there's only one open slot so I'm assuming it goes there but this is the first time I've pulled off a 914 gauge.

[Tdskip]

[Tdskip]

Assume this connects here ( provided wiring is correct etc. )

[Tom_T]

The cars without the center console temperature gauges had a temperature indicator in the combination gauge. I don't know if all cars had these across all years (hopefully someone else will chime in).



-Carl

The OT dash gauge was an option on 1.7s & IIRC were standard on the 2.0's without the center console, but most of the 73 MY 2Ls had the center console - so more often seen ion 74> in dash on 2Ls.

.

Tdskip - you can either add another combo gauge in your dash (I know, you sold the spare) - or you could get a 2-3 gauge VDO mount to put on the bottom of the dash in the center stack below the ashtray/heater/vent controls - then put in a "modern" VDO set of OT + OP gauges & CHT if you get the 3-gauge one. (OP = oil pressure, OT = oil temp, & CHT + cylinder head temp). The new VDO gauges are smaller diameter than the OE ones on our 914s' center console, & make sure to get the gauges + senders matched for use in your 1.7L 73.

If you go with the combo guage for OT, then your'e probably better off finding another full unit, rather than trying to find the insert alone to update your current fuel/lights unit.

PS - You'll want the OT gauge with the wide red band to match the sender & calibration for your 73 1.7 (not the narrow or shorter red band in the pic above).

.

ALL -

I don't know why folks insist on calling the basic left gauge as a "combo gauge" - because it is NOT - it's a fuel gauge, with warning/idiot lights for Gen/Alt, OT, OP & a big a$$ed parking brake light. There is NO combo about it.

The true COMBO gauge has the OT in place of the big parking brake light, with a smaller round light for the brake. That combines fuel gauge with an OT gauge.

IMHO we'd all be better off to refer to them differently as the base fuel gauge/warning lights unit, or the true fule + OT combo gauge to avoid this type of confusion which TDskip had in thinking that he already had a combo gauge in his, as others have been confused.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[GregAmy]

The green with black and white wire is your brake warning indicator.
Blue wire is the generator warning indicator.
Green with red is the oil pressure indicator.

I don't immediately see a green with black spiral hanging out there unused in those photos. And you don't have a sensor wire into the pan. You'd have to pull the "bumped" plate to see if there's a sensor in there, but I doubt it.

If we assume that the car is not wired for oil temperature, you could handle this a couple ways:

- Buy the right oil temp/fuel gauge combo gauge, buy a sensor (stock is hard to find, the VDO 150 one will work, see second post above) and run a wire through the center console between that sensor and the combo gauge. Other terminal on the oil temp gauge goes to 12V power.
- Install an aftermarket VDO oil temp gauge, mount someplace under/in the dash.

I'd keep looking for that wire; I don't know if they installed it in all cars, though. A tip might be to lift up the shifter/carpet and sift through that harness that goes forward, see if there's a green/black wire in the bundle.

[Tdskip]

The green with black and white wire is your brake warning indicator.
Blue wire is the generator warning indicator.
Green with red is the oil pressure indicator.

I don't immediately see a green with black spiral hanging out there unused in those photos. And you don't have a sensor wire into the pan. You'd have to pull the "bumped" plate to see if there's a sensor in there, but I doubt it.

If we assume that the car is not wired for oil temperature, you could handle this a couple ways:

- Buy the right oil temp/fuel gauge combo gauge, buy a sensor (stock is hard to find, the VDO 150 one will work, see second post above) and run a wire through the center console between that sensor and the combo gauge. Other terminal on the oil temp gauge goes to 12V power.
- Install an aftermarket VDO oil temp gauge, mount someplace under/in the dash.

I'd keep looking for that wire; I don't know if they installed it in all cars, though. A tip might be to lift up the shifter/carpet and sift through that harness that goes forward, see if there's a green/black wire in the bundle.

Thank you again for the follow up: super helpful.

I am working out a deal with another member here to buy a combination gauge that includes the temp indicator, thanks for the suggestion on that.

Should I just carry an infrared temperature gun with me and check the car after driving it for a bit until then?

Someone suggested that getting a type for dipstick with the temperature gage built-in would be a workaround, I didn't know that those existed, seems pretty clever.

[GregAmy]

My pleasure.

Someone suggested that getting a type for dipstick with the temperature gage built-in would be a workaround, I didn't know that those existed, seems pretty clever.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2661437

I've got one. Maybe that's all you need, keep it simple?

[Tdskip]

The cars without the center console temperature gauges had a temperature indicator in the combination gauge. I don't know if all cars had these across all years (hopefully someone else will chime in).



-Carl

The OT dash gauge was an option on 1.7s & IIRC were standard on the 2.0's without the center console, but most of the 73 MY 2Ls had the center console - so more often seen ion 74> in dash on 2Ls.

.

Tdskip - you can either add another combo gauge in your dash (I know, you sold the spare) - or you could get a 2-3 gauge VDO mount to put on the bottom of the dash in the center stack below the ashtray/heater/vent controls - then put in a "modern" VDO set of OT + OP gauges & CHT if you get the 3-gauge one. (OP = oil pressure, OT = oil temp, & CHT + cylinder head temp). The new VDO gauges are smaller diameter than the OE ones on our 914s' center console, & make sure to get the gauges + senders matched for use in your 1.7L 73.

If you go with the combo guage for OT, then your'e probably better off finding another full unit, rather than trying to find the insert alone to update your current fuel/lights unit.

PS - You'll want the OT gauge with the wide red band to match the sender & calibration for your 73 1.7 (not the narrow or shorter red band in the pic above).

.

ALL -

I don't know why folks insist on calling the basic left gauge as a "combo gauge" - because it is NOT - it's a fuel gauge, with warning/idiot lights for Gen/Alt, OT, OP & a big a$$ed parking brake light. There is NO combo about it.

The true COMBO gauge has the OT in place of the big parking brake light, with a smaller round light for the brake. That combines fuel gauge with an OT gauge.

IMHO we'd all be better off to refer to them differently as the base fuel gauge/warning lights unit, or the true fule + OT combo gauge to avoid this type of confusion which TDskip had in thinking that he already had a combo gauge in his, as others have been confused.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

CRIPES! Those gauges that include the temp sweep are spendy.

[bbrock]

My wife had a 73 Appearance Group 1.7L that did not have the center console or an oil temp gauge in the combo. Like Tom said, I think the OT was standard only on the 2.0L (either in center console or combo) but I could be wrong. Never had an OT until my third 914 and drove the other two many miles without. Not saying it was smart, but I didn't blow up any engines.

BTW, I believe the open slot you are looking at is just to a light bulb. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

Oil temp gauges were only found in cars with center consoles, or in 2-liter cars that did not have center consoles. (Also Sixes.)

You can't tell the oil temp of a non-center-console 1.7 or 1.8 unless some modifications have been made. There's the dipstick thermometer available from at least one source, or you could follow John Muir's advice and say that if the dipstick is just to the point where you can hold it for a few seconds, passing it back and forth from hand to hand, it's the right temp.

--DD

[Tdskip]

So are y'all tell me to just drive the car?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

( thanks for all the responses )

[tmc914]

Got the same type of car and situation. My plan is to install a CHT next year. Also concerned about overheating the car but have driven it for a year and still okay.