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> Wont start, struggling
914_teener
post Dec 31 2018, 12:21 PM
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QUOTE(injunmort @ Dec 30 2018, 05:46 PM) *

there are no shims behind the seal. that's whats left of the seal springs. looking at pre seal removal, its pretty obvious where the seal failed. new seal and reassemble. galley plug looks like it has indian head smeared on it and probably not the worst idea.



Shims are there for crank end play which you will need to reset since they are destroyed.

Have the flywheel checked for balance and wear.

It could be bad or installed incorrectly.

Good thing it is just a TIV.

The DMF's in the newer P cars' are expensive.
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injunmort
post Dec 31 2018, 01:05 PM
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if that is in fact shim remains, it was installed in the wrong place. the seal goes into the journal, the flywheel goes into the seal and is bolted up with shim on the flywheel. not behind it. see the pin on the crank, that corresponds to the flywheel, nothing in between. the shim as mentioned is for crank endplay. the bolts for the flywheel go through the shims and into the hub. the only way you could get shim remains back there with seal remains is if it was istalled in the wrong place. to confirm this I pulled the clutch on a motor I have in the garage there is the shim on the flywheel. io pulled the flywheel, seal that's it. when you pulled the flywheel bolts to remove it, was there a shimplate between all the bolts holding them to the flywheel? if not, there is your answer.
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ericoneal
post Dec 31 2018, 01:22 PM
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Hard question to answer. I dont know where the shims were installed because there was really just shards left (what you see in the picture). They seemed, from what I could tell, to be around the crank and behind the the main seal.
I found this set of flywheel shims online:

Flywheel Shims - Pack Of 5

but you mention: "..the bolts for the flywheel go through the shims and into the hub. " but I dont see any way for a bolt to go through these.

Are you referring to the flywheel washer?
Flywheel washer

If so, the yes, that was there.
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injunmort
post Dec 31 2018, 01:46 PM
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I am going to pull the flywheel off another motor now. I will be back
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914_teener
post Dec 31 2018, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE(ericoneal @ Dec 30 2018, 06:12 PM) *

It must be shim remains because the seal spring is still inside the seal and is intact. But how can this happen to the shims?



Installed incorrectly be my quess.

Check everything.

Have the crank run out checked.

Something is wrong there.

The shims should be stacked tight against the #1 Bearing Journal against the RMS.

Flywheel could have been loose. You may have dodged a bullet.
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injunmort
post Dec 31 2018, 02:13 PM
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this engine has three shims behind the oil seal. I stand corrected. according to Haynes, do not install seal. put two shims in and measure end play. that gives you the thickness of the third shim. then install flywheel and tighten.
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ericoneal
post Dec 31 2018, 02:45 PM
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Yeah, I'm with you on all of that. Just concerned as to how these shims could get destroyed like that. Flywheel was very tight when I took it off.
Car seems to run just fine except for the oil leak.

I also dont know what size shims to buy now. Looks like I will need to mail order them blindly unless there is a correlation between the measurement with 0 shims vs the various thicknesses offered.
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injunmort
post Dec 31 2018, 03:41 PM
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install the flywheel. measure endplay and order 3 put it in spec.
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euro911
post Dec 31 2018, 04:36 PM
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Here ya go, Eric ... everything you need to know to get it into spec. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=/D51T5dU1HtY



BTW, I use Victor Reinz seals ... Elrings seem to have a QC issue or something, they've always leaked on me.
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ericoneal
post Dec 31 2018, 08:37 PM
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THanks, will check that out. I've actually watched quite a few of his videos and I think he is also from Kentucky.

QUOTE(euro911 @ Dec 31 2018, 05:36 PM) *

Here ya go, Eric ... everything you need to know to get it into spec. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=/D51T5dU1HtY



BTW, I use Victor Reinz seals ... Elrings seem to have a QC issue or something, they've always leaked on me.
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cgnj
post Jan 1 2019, 10:37 AM
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That doesn't look like enough material for 3 shims
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wndsrfr
post Jan 1 2019, 12:17 PM
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QUOTE(cgnj @ Jan 1 2019, 08:37 AM) *

That doesn't look like enough material for 3 shims

Might explain why it's rashed up if only one was in there....
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ericoneal
post Jan 8 2019, 08:02 AM
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Hi all, still working on this and finally have the proper tools.
But I'm having a hell of a time with the flywheel shims.

I bought a pack from ecstuning.com, but they were all the same size, so I'm not sure how that would ever work unless I got very lucky.

From my calculations now, with three .3 shims in and .12 freeplay left, it appears that I will need a .3, and .34, and another .34 to get me at .04 endplay.

As I said, I have a whole pack of .3.

Does anyone have or know where I can get two .34 shims?

Will these fit our cars? (see no mention of 914 or even Type 4 on some of these pages)

BusDepot

GoWesty


This is the last step to get me back running. Should do a write up on all of this for the next guy...
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IronHillRestorations
post Jan 8 2019, 08:31 AM
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I only use Sabo rear main seals Eric. They are the only ones I've found to be the right depth. I found them at GoWesty
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ericoneal
post Jan 8 2019, 08:33 AM
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Have the seal, need the shims
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ericoneal
post Jan 8 2019, 09:01 AM
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FYI for anyone reading this, found them here:

thegansmann shims

and also here:

BusDepot


Expensive!
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76-914
post Jan 8 2019, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE(IronHillRestorations @ Jan 8 2019, 06:31 AM) *

I only use Sabo rear main seals Eric. They are the only ones I've found to be the right depth. I found them at GoWesty

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
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worn
post Jan 8 2019, 10:21 AM
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QUOTE(ericoneal @ Jan 8 2019, 07:01 AM) *

FYI for anyone reading this, found them here:

thegansmann shims

and also here:

BusDepot


Expensive!

Can you post a picture of the mating surface of the flywheel? Also, is the oil hole under the seal open to the inside of the case? It seems wise to understand the cause of the shim destruction before reassembly. I am thinking that the aluminum case isn't going to chew up steel shims, but maybe they dried up and got really hot.
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ericoneal
post Jan 8 2019, 10:32 AM
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Good thinking. I will double check the surface tonight. I think the oil hole is indeed open because it was leaking like a sieve through the rear seal.

My suspicion, from looking at the remnants of the shims compared to the new ones that I have now, is that mayne the wrong diameters ones were used. But who knows for sure?

QUOTE(worn @ Jan 8 2019, 11:21 AM) *

QUOTE(ericoneal @ Jan 8 2019, 07:01 AM) *

FYI for anyone reading this, found them here:

thegansmann shims

and also here:

BusDepot


Expensive!

Can you post a picture of the mating surface of the flywheel? Also, is the oil hole under the seal open to the inside of the case? It seems wise to understand the cause of the shim destruction before reassembly. I am thinking that the aluminum case isn't going to chew up steel shims, but maybe they dried up and got really hot.
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rhodyguy
post Jan 8 2019, 11:27 AM
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Expensive at $12?
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