Ride height and how much should the suspension bounce |
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Ride height and how much should the suspension bounce |
Tdskip |
Dec 16 2018, 08:17 AM
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#1
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,674 Joined: 1-December 17 From: soCal Member No.: 21,666 Region Association: None |
In the continuing journey to learn about these I took your coaching from an earlier thread on rear suspensions.
1) I measured my ride height from the doughnuts Driver front 5.25 Driver rear 5.60 Passenger front 5.25 Passenger rear 5.60 I quite like how she sits so I’m inclined to call this good but am curious how this compares to yours? 2) I tried the fender bounce test and was surprised by what I found. My front shocks have almost zero movement. There is basically zero movement when I try to bounce the driver side front and only a little on the passenger side front. The driver side feels like a rock. Not sure what normal should feel like here... 3) The rear shocks move as I would expect then to, evenly on both sides but look to be the white Monroe (?) ones. 4) the car is a go cart on smooth pavement but is too harsh over bumps and not compliant enough for comfortable road use. 5) is the tie rod angle shown in the picture, basically level, considered correct? Can you guys take me to school on this all please? |
Tdskip |
Dec 16 2018, 08:18 AM
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#2
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,674 Joined: 1-December 17 From: soCal Member No.: 21,666 Region Association: None |
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ConeDodger |
Dec 16 2018, 09:12 AM
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#3
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,543 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California |
The problem is with the bushings...
I’m assuming by the look of those pictures that your suspension was last installed by the factory? The rubber in the original suspensions adheres itself to both the inner and outer surface with a steely grip. It becomes in a sense a spring of sorts. Even if you installed the plushest of shocks it will be harsh because there isn’t any suspension travel. We have a couple of real innovators here. I believe it was Mueller and McMark who combined to create roller bearing bushing replacements. Elephant Racing also came up with their poly bronze bushings. Both of these solutions allow complete suspension travel. Try this: lift a wheel and unbolt the shock. Now try to move the suspension up and down through its full travel. I’d bet you can’t budge it more than an inch or two. Both the roller bearing and the poly bronze bushings allow you to move it through full travel with one finger. This allows your shocks to do their job. Go cart handling with a supple ride. My car has zero rubber in its suspension and it rides much better and less harsh than it did on the factory bushings. I should add, delrin and polyurethane, properly installed will yield a similar result. |
Tdskip |
Dec 16 2018, 09:32 AM
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#4
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,674 Joined: 1-December 17 From: soCal Member No.: 21,666 Region Association: None |
Rob! Good morning, hope you are all doing well up there.
I don’t have much history on this one but it’s seems likely it’s all original bushings. Thanks for education on the importance of bushings - didn’t realize how critical they are to ride compliance (compared to my other cars). I sense a slippery slope coming up here.... |
Tdskip |
Dec 16 2018, 10:05 AM
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#5
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,674 Joined: 1-December 17 From: soCal Member No.: 21,666 Region Association: None |
Just did some checking, it appears that while replacing the struts inserts is not that difficult it may not make, to robs point above, any difference. So, presumably but keep me honest here, does that mean that job number one is the a-arm bushings? In other words, do the a-arm bushings and put it back together and then see if the struts need to be replaced?
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Spoke |
Dec 16 2018, 10:18 AM
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#6
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
My front shocks have almost zero movement. There is basically zero movement when I try to bounce the driver side front and only a little on the passenger side front. The driver side feels like a rock. Not sure what normal should feel like here... You should have some movement when leaning on the front fender even if the bushings are old. My 914 was the same way when I bought it. Almost no movement of the front shocks. New inserts helped out dramatically. If you don't know the age/use of the existing inserts, it might be a good time to put new ones on. |
Larmo63 |
Dec 16 2018, 10:49 AM
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#7
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,264 Joined: 3-March 14 From: San Clemente, Ca Member No.: 17,068 Region Association: Southern California |
If the car is worth keeping and developing, I would start with new Bilsteins/Konis. It may depend on your budget too. If you are going to go five lug, on the front find later 911 3 1/2" Bilstein struts and be done with it.
If you are staying four lug, the same holds true. New shocks. You are most likely going to want to rebuild with: new A arm bushings - I'd go with Elephant Rubber or 914 Rubber Turbo tie rods Lemfoerder ball joints Bilstein HD or Koni shocks all around new swing arm bushings Clean, Powdercoat and plate before assembly While you are in there; brakes, bearings, etc. It really depends on your budget and how far you want to take this car. Slippery slope. |
Tdskip |
Dec 16 2018, 11:17 AM
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#8
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,674 Joined: 1-December 17 From: soCal Member No.: 21,666 Region Association: None |
Good coaching, thanks.
I don’t profess to managing navigating the slippery slope well. Having a plan for this car seems rather critical now, just not sure what t is. |
Tdskip |
Dec 16 2018, 11:39 AM
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#9
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,674 Joined: 1-December 17 From: soCal Member No.: 21,666 Region Association: None |
You should have some movement when leaning on the front fender even if the bushings are old. My 914 was the same way when I bought it. Almost no movement of the front shocks. New inserts helped out dramatically. If you don't know the age/use of the existing inserts, it might be a good time to put new ones on. That accounts for the difference from side to side. Maybe just throw some decent used front shocks on and see where that gets me in the interim... |
iankarr |
Dec 16 2018, 02:49 PM
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#10
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The wrencher formerly known as Cuddy_K Group: Members Posts: 2,469 Joined: 22-May 15 From: Heber City, UT Member No.: 18,749 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
A-arm bushing removal and replacement vids in my signature... hope they help!
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Tdskip |
Dec 16 2018, 05:08 PM
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#11
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,674 Joined: 1-December 17 From: soCal Member No.: 21,666 Region Association: None |
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Mark Henry |
Dec 16 2018, 06:37 PM
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#12
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Hard as a rock equals bad bushings.
I thought my bilsteins, that I pulled off of a parts car, were shot. I replaced my bushings with Mcmarks full motion bearings and found there was absolutely nothing wrong with the struts. When I pulled (cut off) the bushings they were deformed and the rubber had turned to cement. |
Tdskip |
Dec 16 2018, 06:38 PM
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#13
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,674 Joined: 1-December 17 From: soCal Member No.: 21,666 Region Association: None |
Thanks Mark
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Larmo63 |
Dec 16 2018, 07:22 PM
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#14
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,264 Joined: 3-March 14 From: San Clemente, Ca Member No.: 17,068 Region Association: Southern California |
The suspension on our cars is quite simple. It's like a puzzle too. If you want it right, tear it all off and re-do everything.
Or, do as I did; I collected everything on the side, and kept my car running/driving. I assembled everything to be ready for a complete take-off and re-assembly of new/refurbished suspension parts. Kind of anal, but we did the whole swap in a little more than a day. |
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