 So sorry but the old shock question again. |
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| bbrock |
 Dec 26 2018, 12:40 PM
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#1
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914 Guru  Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains 
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Read through many of the surplus of threads on this but still a little confused.
I need to replace rear shocks on my project - the fronts (Boge) look like they may still have some life in them. I plan to place a WTB for used shocks but want to educate myself first. I'd like to restore original ride on the car and would gladly install a new pair of Boge/Sachs if they were still available. From the best I can tell Bilstein HD are the closest to stock ride comfort and performance for new shocks. True? And would Bilsteins in the rear play nice with Boge inserts up front? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Depending on answers about how Bilsteins compare with OEM ride, I might just go that route to get on a migration path to Bilsteins on all corners. Mostly just looking to experience what one of these cars was like when new - a fun and comfortable pleasure driver I can toss in the twisties on occasion but don't want to spend a fortune as this car is already claiming its share of my income. |
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| 914forme |
Dec 26 2018, 01:14 PM
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#2
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None
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Koni, full soft.
Hd sports will be a bit harsher Just avoid KYB and you should be good going either way. I know it is more cost, but I would also replace the fronts. Easier now and unless you have a shock dyno you won't know until your driving down the street, hopping like your in a car hopping competition. |
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| mepstein |
Dec 26 2018, 01:50 PM
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#3
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,258 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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If you still have your rear Boge’s, you can rebuild them if you like to/must have original. Illsteins were an option on our cars. Koni’s are nice as well. I have never ridden on old shocks that still rode well - and we get a lot of barn/garage finds into our shop. I would go new or rebuilt on the front and back. But shocks only take a little time to change out on our cars so try the old fronts and change them if you are not happy.
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| Tom_T |
Dec 26 2018, 01:52 PM
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#4
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,318 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California
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QUOTE(914forme @ Dec 26 2018, 12:14 PM)  Koni, full soft. Hd sports will be a bit harsher Just avoid KYB and you should be good going either way. I know it is more cost, but I would also replace the fronts. Easier now and unless you have a shock dyno you won't know until your driving down the street, hopping like your in a car hopping competition. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) .... with Stephen, Brent .... Go with Koni Street at all 4 corners - however you could also get a set of 4 of used old school ones, & then have Koni restore them to new condition for you, if you want the old school "Flying Flag" look & 70's Koni street ride. If you instead decide on Bilstiens, then do 4 street all the way around. Avoid KYB like the plague - they're (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Tom /////// |
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| Rand |
Dec 26 2018, 02:05 PM
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#5
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,409 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
Please remove sorry from your vocabulary. I'ts ok to want to learn. There's no reason to be sorry for it.
My dad hammered that into me when I said "sorry" once. Save sorry for a time you did something wrong. Don't do something wrong. Back on track. No Kill Yer Backs for sure. |
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| bbrock |
Dec 26 2018, 02:18 PM
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#6
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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Anyone remember the old Kontrol shocks? I have a pair of front inserts I bought for another car years ago and they have very few miles on them. All I remember is that they were stiffer (and way better) than the blown out Boge shocks they replaced but I recall they were pretty cheap (but seems like not as cheap as KYB). Just wonder if they are even worth considering. I was planning to follow Mark's plan of just test driving the fronts that I have and changing them out if they are bad. The rears I pulled off are most definitely no good. I'll probably need to replace springs too but will test the rates just to make sure it is necessary.
I'm not concerned about originality on the shocks. I'm just looking for the most cost effective way to get close to the "as new" ride and performance. Thanks for the input so far. I even started watching shock rebuild vids on Youtube and it doesn't look that tricky. I even went so far as to pop the top cap off my bad Boge shocks only to find there is no non-destructive way to get inside the cartridge. If I go with new shocks, it will be Koni. |
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| bbrock |
Dec 26 2018, 02:21 PM
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#7
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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QUOTE(Rand @ Dec 26 2018, 01:05 PM) Please remove sorry from your vocabulary. I'ts ok to want to learn. There's no reason to be sorry for it. My dad hammered that into me when I said "sorry" once. Save sorry for a time you did something wrong. Don't do something wrong. Back on track. No Kill Yer Backs for sure. Oh, so sorry about that Rand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) |
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| Rand |
Dec 26 2018, 02:24 PM
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#8
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,409 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
Yeah yea. It was a moment. He didn't teach patience.
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| Mark Henry |
Dec 26 2018, 04:29 PM
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#9
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(bbrock @ Dec 26 2018, 03:21 PM) QUOTE(Rand @ Dec 26 2018, 01:05 PM) Please remove sorry from your vocabulary. I'ts ok to want to learn. There's no reason to be sorry for it. My dad hammered that into me when I said "sorry" once. Save sorry for a time you did something wrong. Don't do something wrong. Back on track. No Kill Yer Backs for sure. Oh, so sorry about that Rand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Montana, so he's watched too much Canadian TV all his life. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Sorry aboot that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| Rand |
Dec 26 2018, 05:51 PM
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#10
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,409 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
Speaking of Canadian TV... If you were a Monty Python fan, I'd be be saying, and now aboot something different...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxJpjCWnyV0 |
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| bbrock |
Dec 26 2018, 05:57 PM
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#11
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Dec 26 2018, 03:29 PM) QUOTE(bbrock @ Dec 26 2018, 03:21 PM) QUOTE(Rand @ Dec 26 2018, 01:05 PM) Please remove sorry from your vocabulary. I'ts ok to want to learn. There's no reason to be sorry for it. My dad hammered that into me when I said "sorry" once. Save sorry for a time you did something wrong. Don't do something wrong. Back on track. No Kill Yer Backs for sure. Oh, so sorry about that Rand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Montana, so he's watched too much Canadian TV all his life. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Sorry aboot that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I suppose too much time at the Possum Lodge, eh? |
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| TravisNeff |
Dec 27 2018, 08:35 AM
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#12
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region
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I would replace with Bilstein. My car sat on jackstands for 5 years and the seals on my Konis failed from drying out. Which all sounds fine, but I didn't keep the receipts for the warranty fix. There are not many shops that rebuild them and the cost is probably double what you would pay to rebuild the bilsteins. Plus there are 10x as many places that can rebuild them as Koni
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| Steve |
Dec 27 2018, 08:47 AM
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#13
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,580 Joined: 14-June 03 From: Orange County, CA Member No.: 822 Region Association: Southern California
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if its a street car, go with Bilsteins. If you like to autocross and want to play with settings, go with Koni. I had Koni's years ago, when I used to autocross and they were fun to play with. For the last 20 years, I have been running the same Bilsteins with 21mm front torsion bars and 150 lb rear springs and I am happy with the ride and cornering. I have driven the car to multiple 8 hour plus drives with the stock seats and the ride is nice.
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| bbrock |
Dec 27 2018, 10:23 AM
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#14
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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This is all great feedback and I feel like I'm starting to understand the choices. To summarize -
It seems Bilstein B6 (HD) is the "street" shock and will be a little stiffer than Boge/Sachs but still comfortable for long distance driving and could be considere "OEM" since they were available as an option. It's also easier to find a rebuild service if needed. They also happen to be significantly cheaper than Koni. The big advantage of Koni is their adjustability and being able to dial them as soft (or close to) the OEM Boge shocks while also able to stiffen them up if needed. This is very appealing. It looks like Koni also makes an orange STR.T (why can't they just call it a "street" shock?) line but not for our cars. I've never owned a 914 that didn't have a worn out suspension so don't have a good reference for my personal ride preference although I tend to prefer a slightly firm ride. The car will be strictly street and will be used mostly for long drives and occasionally "getting on it" around my mountain roads. I have a bit of a reputation as a road warrior and 14 hour stretches of seat time are not unusual. At prices I've found, Bilsteins will come in nearly $200 under what a full set of Konis will run. That's making replacing all four corners more doable whereas I'd only be able to swing replacing the rears with Konis right now. |
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| dr914@autoatlanta.com |
Dec 27 2018, 10:31 AM
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#15
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,842 Joined: 3-January 07 From: atlanta georgia Member No.: 7,418 Region Association: None |
Bilsteins and stock springs, as you are removing the spring to replace the shock anyway. Too bad that Sachs Boge no longer makes 914 rear shocks, because those would be the best for street driving and were very reasonable.
QUOTE(bbrock @ Dec 27 2018, 09:23 AM) This is all great feedback and I feel like I'm starting to understand the choices. To summarize - It seems Bilstein B6 (HD) is the "street" shock and will be a little stiffer than Boge/Sachs but still comfortable for long distance driving and could be considere "OEM" since they were available as an option. It's also easier to find a rebuild service if needed. They also happen to be significantly cheaper than Koni. The big advantage of Koni is their adjustability and being able to dial them as soft (or close to) the OEM Boge shocks while also able to stiffen them up if needed. This is very appealing. It looks like Koni also makes an orange STR.T (why can't they just call it a "street" shock?) line but not for our cars. I've never owned a 914 that didn't have a worn out suspension so don't have a good reference for my personal ride preference although I tend to prefer a slightly firm ride. The car will be strictly street and will be used mostly for long drives and occasionally "getting on it" around my mountain roads. I have a bit of a reputation as a road warrior and 14 hour stretches of seat time are not unusual. At prices I've found, Bilsteins will come in nearly $200 under what a full set of Konis will run. That's making replacing all four corners more doable whereas I'd only be able to swing replacing the rears with Konis right now. |
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| TravisNeff |
Dec 27 2018, 10:33 AM
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#16
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region
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While dialing in the Konis is a neat feature. Once you set them, you never seem to touch them again. Plus rebuilding the Bilsteins is downright cheap compared to the Konis. From what I could tell rebuild cost is right up there with replacing them.
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| bbrock |
Dec 27 2018, 10:39 AM
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#17
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Dec 27 2018, 09:31 AM) Bilsteins and stock springs, as you are removing the spring to replace the shock anyway. Too bad that Sachs Boge no longer makes 914 rear shocks, because those would be the best for street driving and were very reasonable. Are you still selling stock spring reproductions George? Springs are already off and I'm going to test them to make sure they need replaced. This car was only on the road for about 100K miles and I don't know how many miles the springs typically last. Easy enough to test so I'll do that but am prepared to replace if needed. |
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| bbrock |
Dec 27 2018, 06:18 PM
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#18
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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I just ordered a pair of rear Bilsteins from PMB. His price for the pair was about the same as most places wanted for a single Koni. I know I'll love these shocks but agree it is a shame that Sachs stopped making them.
Thanks much for all your help. I really appreciate it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| mepstein |
Dec 27 2018, 07:29 PM
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#19
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,258 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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Save the spring perches, hardware and rubber bumpers from the Sachs. It will cost a fortune if you have to buy it new.
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| bbrock |
Dec 27 2018, 07:39 PM
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#20
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Dec 27 2018, 06:29 PM) Save the spring perches, hardware and rubber bumpers from the Sachs. It will cost a fortune if you have to buy it new. Done. Already have the metal bits cleaned up and in the buckets for painting or plating. Just need to bag and tag the rubber parts. |
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