SOT: A Westy Just Winked @ me, looking for a little input Options

[76-914]

About 30 mins ago a guy called and asked if I wanted to buy his 86 Westy that needs an engine. You see where this is headed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) I said no because I need to get rid of one project before taking on another. Mind you, this comes from a guy who's been spouting off about downsizing so he doesn't leave this mess should he unexpectedly depart this planet suddenly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I tell my wife about the call and she tells me that I should do this. What should I look for when checking one of these out? Known gotcha's? Price ranges? Drive train will be converted to ...................drum roll pls................Yes, Subaru so I won't need VW engine or transmissions estimates. TIA, Kent

[Chris H.]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) I can't help much on what to look for before you buy since mine doesn't run but here are some folks from my Vanagon thread who have them:

@Tom_T
@KELTY360
@OU8AVW
@euro911

Also check the Vanagon forum of The Samba:

The Samba Vanagon Forum

I hope you buy it! Maybe we can convert our Vanagons to Subie at the same time just like the old days! I have lots of info on conversions.

[Tom_T]

Kent,

Your wife is right on! You can use the Westy for camping & all sorts of fun, as a counterpoint to your 914s. They actually drive better than one would expect from a tall brick on wheels! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

I don't know if you mean it's running but needs an engine, or is a roller at this point, but if it's a runner still, you could take it to my longtime mechanic in Huntington Beach for a PPI, & he's still taking Vanagon customers - just tell him about your plans for a Subie transplant. He has some customers with Subie-Vanagons, so he & his guy Larry will know them too.

The 86's still had the older & less desirable 1.9L WBX, & so it's a good candidate for a Subie, but ask others with them about their reccos for best engine to use. Since the WBX Vanagons are already plumbed for water-cooled, & they were designed from the start to be a WBX - even though the 1980-83.5 ones used the 2.0L ABX until the 1.9 WBX was ready, & they had water-cooled diesels too.

Like the 914s - look everywhere for rust - check all lower panels, belly pan, around all windows & doors/hatch, battery boxes under both front seats & engine bay; as well as DAPO hacks that would cause you grief later on - and electrical & harness amateurish hack jobs would top that list for a no-go. The suspension & running gear would be another area - including at connection points to the unibody - but bearings, bushings, shocks are still available.

Along with the Subie upgrade, you may want to consider doing a GoWesty front big brake upgrade (requires going to their or other 15" or 16" wheel package - IIRC the 15" still fits the spare belly pan, but not the 16", but ask them), & using the rear disks off of the Subie trans or donor, since the stock rears are drums.

Another option to consider, is getting a GoWesty upbuilt 1.9L or 2.1L to as much as 2.45L or 2.7L with close to the same HP & TQ as a Subie 4, but with 2 advantages - less mod work & a 4 yr/48K mi warranty - but do the full cooling refit as well in order to not lose coverage for a coolant part failure. GoWesty can give you the parts/prices for the whole bundle, & I'll bet that it's not far off of a Subie conversion counting everything needed for it!

https://www.gowesty.com/shop/vehicle-parts/...-engines/176?v=

Because the Vanagon & Westfalia OEM parts are getting scarce & much of the used stuff is trashy, I'd not go for it if it's missing a lot of the camping gear & other fittings. make sure that all the cabinets, stove, fridge, sink, water tank, hook-ups, lights, LP system/tank, etc. are present & operable - even if you plan to upgrade some (LP tank is a common upgrade). Check the pop-top & luggage rack & all gear for it, & that it operates (replacement skylights & seals are still available, but the best are expensive).

For parts, check VW Bus Shop in Germany 1st (usually 5-10 day shipping to USA), then GoWesty, Van Cafe (now in CO), Bus Depot for parts, & there's a CO shop that specializes in Subie conversions & parts which can give you an idea of costs for that option. If you need links, then I can send or post them.

Lastly - anything with a pop-top is the highest value Vanagons, & a well restored full camper Westy would easily be worth $50-$70K+ when you're done - even with a Subie swap, or with a GoWesty or other rebuild/upbuild WBX that's not original. & As with our 914s, the Westy values have continued to go up, & even held flat during the 2008-10 "Great Recession". So IMHO, the Westies are a better economic choice for restoration, than are most 914/4s - which was partly why our OO `88 Westy moved up in front of my 73 914-2.0 when it got clipped in a minor accident in 2013.

Check out the GoWesty recent sales for #4-5 Westies:
https://www.gowesty.com/vehicle-sales-history.php

So an OVR will be advised after your resto/upgrades in case of accident/damage:
https://www.gowesty.com/product/vehicle-val...of-value-report

GoWesty also has a pretty good library on the major quirks, issues & how-to's for them:
https://www.gowesty.com/library.php

.

Next thing will be that your wife will want you to find a vintage Eriba Puck to take her to vintage trailer rallies with the Westy towing, as mine did! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)



But don't despair - if 1950's VWs with 25 HP & this 356 can tow them, you can also put a hitch on your 914 & tow it too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)



.

Shoot me an email if you want to talk more about it this weekend, & I'll send you my cell #.

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[76-914]

Excellant info Tom. The VW engine size increase make fiscal sense, as well. See you this weekend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Tom_T]

Excellant info Tom. The VW engine size increase make fiscal sense, as well. See you this weekend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Kent,

I'm not sure that I'll make it to CFOS this weekend, since I have no 914 to display yet & a long honey-do & project list, so feel free to call me if I'm not there.

Also for the $500 for the GoWesty full 48mo/48Kmi warranty, it's great compared to the typical 12/12 warranty on rebuilds that most shops give (which IIRC is the basic GoWesty warranty).

FYI - I looked at a Jan 2016 estimate that I got from GoWesty for their 2.45L & all the coolant & accessory parts for both future reference for Hans to do ours whenever the current 2.1L rebuild is rebuild, & for insurance (deduction from their sales comps with new engines), & it was just under $12K all in (plus labor from Hans to install), & that included $1250 core charge for engine & their shipping crate - some or all of it is deductible. So my guesstimate was $15-16K all in with install, plus price increases since 2016.

If the 86 Westy does have its engine & tranny, then get it for the core/parts - even if you do the Subie swap.

If you need the transaxle rebuilt, then I'd highly recommend Hans Imports for that too, as they did a great job on our Westy's Auto, as well as years ago on my 85 BMW 325e's & 73 914's 5-spd trannies.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[rgalla9146]

Common ailment,
'89 ...... for years now
Will be emerging from winter nap soon

[preach]

Mine is an 85. My biggest gripe with it was the 14" wheel/tire combo. They may be OK for a regular Vanagon but add 1500# of camper and the 14s just could not take it.
I went with wheel spacers from T3 and put a set of phone dials from a NA 944. PDs and BFG ATs look great together.

[Tom_T]

Mine is an 85. My biggest gripe with it was the 14" wheel/tire combo. They may be OK for a regular Vanagon but add 1500# of camper and the 14s just could not take it.
I went with wheel spacers from T3 and put a set of phone dials from a NA 944. PDs and BFG ATs look great together.

Dan,

Maxxis makes an LT C rated tire better than the original Michelins in both the 14" & 15" sizes which have the stiffer sidewalls that the Westy & Tin-top Vanagons need, but the Michi's are long NLA. That has been the main problem, when tire shops put passenger tires on them with too soft sidewalls & non-LT load rated.

https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-227-104...o-series-ue-168

Give them a try for your next set on your dials, or stock wheels. The driver door sticker lists the Factory specs the sizes & ratings for both steel & allow factory wheels, which they kept small to fit the spare in the front pan - among other things.

I've been running ours on the stock 14" alloys plus 205/14's, & even when towing & in the 30-60 mph big winds this past weekend they were solid, & they're very stable - even with the double sail of the Westy + Puck in the pic below.



Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[euro911]

I had the old (170k mile) 1.9L rebuilt into a 2.1L last year (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Go-Westy lift kit and 1999 MBZ CLK 16"x7" alloy wheels with 215/65-R16 BFG Geolanders

[strawman]

I’ve had two Vanagon Westies: an ‘81 diesel full camper that I swapped an ‘85 1.8 gasser into, and an ‘86 Syncro Westy that I converted to weekender and swapped a ‘94 Legacy EJ22 engine into. Wish I still owned the Syncro mainly because they’re commanding such a premium price. I sold mine in 2005 for $9,900... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

But to be honest, my TDI-swapped ‘93 Eurovan Westy (weekender) is better in every drivability measure: the A/C actually works, I can hear others talking while riding inside the van, I get 30mpg, the brakes stop the van, the seats are great, and it feels so much more solid. Of course, I also swapped in a correctly-geared 5-sp manual so I don’t have to dread another auto rebuild when I did the TDI swap. Parts prices and availability are not too bad; no worse than Vanagon stuff.

I like Weekenders better than full campers because the side cabinet reduces the lower bed size, and the kitchen stuff is squeaky/clingy/heavy. The Cometic fridges are notoriously finicky, too. A propane stove and Yeti cooler are a better substitute IMHO.

Another thing to look for is body seam rust on Vanagons. If you’re planning a Suby swap, the Kennedy full kit will get you a CARB smog badge to legally run in CA.

[veltror]

also just kampers
https://www.justkampers.com/vw-t25-parts.html

and tk parts

https://tk-carparts.de/vw-bus-t3

[Tom_T]

also just kampers
https://www.justkampers.com/vw-t25-parts.html

and tk parts

https://tk-carparts.de/vw-bus-t3

Well, if we're offering advice on parts houses for the Vanagon T3/T25 -

My 1st go to for checking on parts & prices would be Peter Gunzl/VW Bus Shop in Germany - since they sell their stuff to the USA & possibly UK parts houses too, but usually at a lower price than the resellers, & shipping isn't much more than cross country USA. -

http://www.vwbusshop.de/en_GB

So always compare what you find elsewhere, with this place, & also for kits vs individual parts - for example when I painted our Bus Depot sold all of the window seals with grooves for the (plasti-)chrome trim individually at 4x the price of the kit from Gunzl!

.

Also in the UK - change to your MY -

https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/sale/?pageI...ssicSearchType=

.

Main Ones in the USA -

GoWesty -

http://www.gowesty.com/


Bus Depot (also sells some Just Kampers/UK stuff) -

http://www.busdepot.com/


Van Cafe / Rocky Mountain Westy -

https://www.vancafe.com/


West Coast Metric (change MY) -

http://www.westcoastmetric.com/c-1171797-v...vw-vanagon.html


Euro Campers -

http://www.eurocampers.com/Vanagon-Parts-A...ories_c_14.html

.

>> Also for the 914s - many of these VW places will carry 70's Bus & other VW parts for our 914s - either directly (as in shared VW or OEM parts), or as applicable to our 914s in aftermarket, repro or accessories. One good example of the latter is the GoWesty 3rd Brake light kit which can easily be installed in our 914s.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

If you’re planning a Suby swap, the Kennedy full kit will get you a CARB smog badge to legally run in CA.

Is it still winking at you Kent!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Kent & others looking at Engine Swaps - as noted above on the Kennedy Subies - I just noticed on the GoWesty upbuilt WBX-4's that they've added a new caution on the engines that they're not for CA on-road use (that was NOT on them up until recently). So CARB must've come down on them for not having CARB Smog approvals yet.

So for Kent & others here in CA, I'd check with GoWesty to see if & when they plan to get CARB approval for their engine builds - & if they can. The WBX Vanagons are still subject to meeting Smog, & IIRC even the current bill in the CA Legislature to move the age up from 1975 only goes out to the early 1980's (the way-back-when original bill was to be a rolling 30 year, but the tree-huggers got it changed to 1975 cut-off).

Current GoWesty Engine Choices - look at the "Emissions Info" tab for the warning note:

2200 cc - 8.81 CR with up to 102 hp & 135 ft.lbs of torque w/ GoWesty EFI*

https://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php...type=Mechanical


2300 cc - 9.0:1 CR, with up to 114 hp & 157 ft.lbs of torque w/ GoWesty EFI*

https://www.gowesty.com/product/rebuilt-eng...gine-?v=Vanagon


2450 cc - 9.4:1 CR, with up to 132 hp & 177 ft.lbs of torque w/ GoWesty EFI*

https://www.gowesty.com/product/rebuilt-eng...gine-?v=Vanagon


2700 cc - 10:1 CR, with up to 162 hp & 197 ft-lbs of torque w/ GoWesty EFI*

https://www.gowesty.com/product/rebuilt-eng...gine-?v=Vanagon


$500 Add-on 48/48K mi Warranty (twice as long as was the 24/24 Factory Warr. new!) -

https://www.gowesty.com/product/rebuilt-eng...grade?v=Vanagon

* Apparently it's somewhat less HP & TQ if you stick with the factory Digifant EFI (only works up to 2450 cc)

FYI for comparison with the above:
Stock 1987-91 2.1L WBX is 9.0:1 CR, with 95 HP at 4800 rpm & 117 lbs/ft of Torque at 3200 rpm

GoWesty Engine Article -
https://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=31

GoWesty Vanagon Tech Articles - Incl for PPI Items -
https://www.gowesty.com/tech-articles.php?l...mp;type=Vanagon

GoWesty article: "Prices: "Cheap" Vanagons Are the Most Expensive" -
https://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=17


Otherwise I'd recco using Tuttles in LA area, the engine rebuilder in the SoCal area which my longtime mechanic Hans has used since the early 1970s, & who rebuilt my `73 914's 2.0 ABX in the early 80's, & our `88 Westy's 2.1L WBX in 1999 (technically a new engine cuz a rod "holed" the top of the case at the right-rear corner of my original motor!). Tuttles would rebuild for CA street use to an officially legal 2.1L stock engine (with allowed overages for bigger rings etc. per factory & CARB specs), with a 12 month warranty.

http://www.tuttlesvwparts.com/engines/



However, you might need to go through my guys at Hans Imports in Huntington Beach for the engine work to use them. Hans is still taking new Vanagon customers - but he will NOT take on any new 914 nor Aircooled customers - so don't ask them, but you can use my name/recco for Vanagons.

http://www.hansimportsinc.com/


While IMHO the full camper is a better deal for us, & is fully self-contained & ready to go after traveling XC & camping in it with 2 kids & 2 adults for 31+/- years now, I will add a 48 Qt Icechest for the longer trips to augment the small fridge - which is 3-way (12v/110v/LP) & keeps cold, makes ice, & lasts a week+ on propane (I even keep it set-up to serve for post-disaster/earthquake for us at home).

Another interesting Westy website - start here & then explore & see others listed FS, etc. -

http://www.vwvanagoncamper.com/history/

.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[euro911]

How about this conversion?




It's a Oettinger WBX6, aftermarket six-cylinder engine.

3.2 L (3,164 cc) (165 bhp) VW-Oettinger Wasserboxer, fuel injected

3.7 L (3,664 cc) (180 bhp) VW-Oettinger Wasserboxer, fuel injected ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)


The six-cylinder engine as used in the VW Oettinger WBX6 was developed by VW in conjunction with Oettinger for use in the T3. When VW abandoned the project, Oettinger took the design, refined it and put it on the market. As such the six-cylinder shares many parts with the four-cylinder Wasserboxer.

[preach]

I like that Mark.

I have been getting ready for an EZ30 and 5MT Suby swap.

[Tom_T]

How about this conversion?




It's a Oettinger WBX6, aftermarket six-cylinder engine.

3.2 L (3,164 cc) (165 bhp) VW-Oettinger Wasserboxer, fuel injected

3.7 L (3,664 cc) (180 bhp) VW-Oettinger Wasserboxer, fuel injected ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)


The six-cylinder engine as used in the VW Oettinger WBX6 was developed by VW in conjunction with Oettinger for use in the T3. When VW abandoned the project, Oettinger took the design, refined it and put it on the market. As such the six-cylinder shares many parts with the four-cylinder Wasserboxer.

Mark -

Yes - too bad cuz that Oettenger WBX6 was supposed to be the next gen Vanagon T3.5 WBX6 - before VW canned the upgrade plan, & went instead to the Audi I5 & VW VR6 powered T4 Eurovans. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

The conversion added something like $30-40K onto the price of a Van.

IIRC that's also in the big Vanagon SOT topic - along with Porsche's 1985 Carrera B32 Van - making that thread no longer "NPC".

If anyone gets to Germany, VW has a beautiful dark grey metallic B32 passenger van (tintop) in their "Bulli Museum" (in Hamburg? I think), which is worth a tour for that & everything else in there VW Van & Truck wise.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[r_towle]

Kent,
Wife said go for it.
Nuff said.
She is always right!

Subaru, I totally agree.

[914Subaru]

About 30 mins ago a guy called and asked if I wanted to buy his 86 Westy that needs an engine. You see where this is headed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) I said no because I need to get rid of one project before taking on another. Mind you, this comes from a guy who's been spouting off about downsizing so he doesn't leave this mess should he unexpectedly depart this planet suddenly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I tell my wife about the call and she tells me that I should do this. What should I look for when checking one of these out? Known gotcha's? Price ranges? Drive train will be converted to ...................drum roll pls................Yes, Subaru so I won't need VW engine or transmissions estimates. TIA, Kent

Kent,
Did you end up with this 86 Westy? As many others in the group I also have one and am upgrading some stuff so I can trailer my 914 behind it.

[76-914]

About 30 mins ago a guy called and asked if I wanted to buy his 86 Westy that needs an engine. You see where this is headed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) I said no because I need to get rid of one project before taking on another. Mind you, this comes from a guy who's been spouting off about downsizing so he doesn't leave this mess should he unexpectedly depart this planet suddenly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I tell my wife about the call and she tells me that I should do this. What should I look for when checking one of these out? Known gotcha's? Price ranges? Drive train will be converted to ...................drum roll pls................Yes, Subaru so I won't need VW engine or transmissions estimates. TIA, Kent

Kent,
Did you end up with this 86 Westy? As many others in the group I also have one and am upgrading some stuff so I can trailer my 914 behind it.

No. I did not. Couldn't justify it, Ross. Small Car has most everything you'd need to convert one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Bleyseng]

Go for the Subie swap as its a better engine by far. I have been helping my son on his 89 Syncro project now for the past year. We rebuilt and installed a 165hp Subie and had the tranny rebuilt. On to rust repairs which is a bitch on these vans. Slowly getting there as we are using some of the last OEM repair pieces we can find as the aftermarket stuff is crap.