Pedal cluster rebuild, God I just love roll pins. NOT!! Options

[sholman5]

Went to replace my carpet and to my what did I see? A greasy, rusty pedal cluster. Decided to tackle this one myself with a little help from a friend. Disassembly was not bad at all. Even the roll pin came out easily with the help of an air chisel. Sand blasted all of the parts, etch primed and painted. I let everything dry for a week. Today started assembling everything. Used bronze bushings, but the greatist fun all day was replacing the roll pin. It took a few hours, but we wanted to take our time and get it right the first. Ended up using a press to insert it along with a drill bit (smooth end) inserted on the opposite side to keep everything aligned. In the end it was very gratifying to rebuild. Not as nice as a bstone piece , but it is clean and functional. Greatful for all of the threads in the Garage forum.

[BeatNavy]

Nice job (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif). Rebuilt pedal cluster and new throttle cable made a world of difference to me in terms of throttle response and overall control. It's definitely a worthwhile project.

[sithot]

Nice job (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif). Rebuilt pedal cluster and new throttle cable made a world of difference to me in terms of throttle response and overall control. It's definitely a worthwhile project.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

The roll pin that was supplied with the bronze bushing kits for many years was not up to the job in the long term. It would usually fail in pretty short order and the pedal would start heading toward the floorboard.

--DD

[sholman5]

The roll pin that was supplied with the bronze bushing kits for many years was not up to the job in the long term. It would usually fail in pretty short order and the pedal would start heading toward the floorboard.

--DD

What was the problem with the roll pin? The roll pin that we used was a very tight fit. Did they change the size of it or change the material in which it was made of ?

[mlindner]

Isn't that fun, did mine last year. Best, Mark

[bdstone914]

The trick to installing the roll pin is the bevel the end that gets inserted. I start them into the lower clutch armwith the shaft hole NOT aligned. Press until it stops. Align to the hole in the shaft. Use an engine tin cheesehead screw to keep the shaft and arm aligned. Using a vise press the roll oin in until it hits the screw. Remove the screw and press the screw in the rest of the way. A rear caliper pin works too for aligning the shaft and arm.

Anyone interested in a video of the rebuild and R & R of the pedal set?

@sholman5

[bdstone914]

The roll pin that was supplied with the bronze bushing kits for many years was not up to the job in the long term. It would usually fail in pretty short order and the pedal would start heading toward the floorboard.

--DD

I have yet to see a failed roll pin after rebuilding hundres of pedal sets. I have even seen sets with a soft grade 1/4 inch bolt used for a roll pin and it did not fail. I have seen shafts crack at the roll pin hole.

@Dave_Darling

[bdstone914]

The roll pin that was supplied with the bronze bushing kits for many years was not up to the job in the long term. It would usually fail in pretty short order and the pedal would start heading toward the floorboard.

--DD

What was the problem with the roll pin? The roll pin that we used was a very tight fit. Did they change the size of it or change the material in which it was made of ?

The roll pins in the kit are larger than the hole and need a bevel to be easily inserted.
Bruce

[restore2seater]

Anyone interested in a video of the rebuild and R & R of the pedal set?

If your willing to make one I would like to see one Bruce. I can think of no one better to demonstrate the procedure. Would make a good addition to the classics forum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

@bdstone914

[bdstone914]

Anyone interested in a video of the rebuild and R & R of the pedal set?

If your willing to make one I would like to see one Bruce. I can think of no one better to demonstrate the procedure. Would make a good addition to the classics forum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

@bdstone914

[URY914]

Ever tried freezing the pin over night? Will it make much difference?

[lierofox]

The roll pin that was supplied with the bronze bushing kits for many years was not up to the job in the long term. It would usually fail in pretty short order and the pedal would start heading toward the floorboard.

--DD

I have yet to see a failed roll pin after rebuilding hundres of pedal sets. I have even seen sets with a soft grade 1/4 inch bolt used for a roll pin and it did not fail. I have seen shafts crack at the roll pin hole.

@Dave_Darling

The one on mine snapped apart into 3 separate pieces, sheared straight through it.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-18880-1553471579.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-18880-1553471580.2.jpg)

I ended up doing the bolt method instead since it sheared just as I was starting my car and would have left me stranded at work with no other way to drive home. Thankfully work stocks a large supply of Grade 8 1/4" bolts.

To its credit though, I'm using a fairly heavy pressure plate from KEP's clutch/adapter kits.

[bdstone914]

Ever tried freezing the pin over night? Will it make much difference?

They need a leading edge bevel. See the pic i posted.

[bdstone914]

I have yet to see a failed roll pin after rebuilding hundres of pedal sets. I have even seen sets with a soft grade 1/4 inch bolt used for a roll pin and it did not fail. I have seen shafts crack at the roll pin hole.

@Dave_Darling
[/quote]

The one on mine snapped apart into 3 separate pieces, sheared straight through it.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-18880-1553471579.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-18880-1553471580.2.jpg)

I ended up doing the bolt method instead since it sheared just as I was starting my car and would have left me stranded at work with no other way to drive home. Thankfully work stocks a large supply of Grade 8 1/4" bolts.

To its credit though, I'm using a fairly heavy pressure plate from KEP's clutch/adapter kits.
[/quote]

That roll pin does not look stock to me. Not enough coils.
Do you still have the broken pin? See if you can file it to test hardness.

[bdstone914]

[quote name='bdstone914' date='Mar 25 2019, 06:44 AM' post='2699751']
I have yet to see a failed roll pin after rebuilding hundres of pedal sets. I have even seen sets with a soft grade 1/4 inch bolt used for a roll pin and it did not fail. I have seen shafts crack at the roll pin hole.

@Dave_Darling
[/quote]

The one on mine snapped apart into 3 separate pieces, sheared straight through it.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-18880-1553471579.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-18880-1553471580.2.jpg)

I ended up doing the bolt method instead since it sheared just as I was starting my car and would have left me stranded at work with no other way to drive home. Thankfully work stocks a large supply of Grade 8 1/4" bolts.

To its credit though, I'm using a fairly heavy pressure plate from KEP's clutch/adapter kits.
[/quote]

That roll pin does not look stock to me. Not enough coils.
Do you still have the broken pin? See if you can file it to test hardness.

That type of failure could also be caused by a loose fittment of the shaft to the arm. I sort through arms and shafts to get the tightest combo to reduce the shear on the pin.
[/quote]

[Dave_Darling]

The Weltmeister kits used to ship with pins that were not even a full spiral. They were notorious for failing. To the point where the first question we used to ask when someone had a loose clutch pedal was, "Did you just change the pedal bushings?"

I see spiral pins in Bruce's post and in Lierofox's post. Those are not notorious for failing.

I don't know if WM finally figured out they needed a better pin, or if WM kits are even the ones being used above.

--DD

[bdstone914]

[quote name='bdstone914' date='Mar 25 2019, 06:44 AM' post='2699751']
I have yet to see a failed roll pin after rebuilding hundres of pedal sets. I have even seen sets with a soft grade 1/4 inch bolt used for a roll pin and it did not fail. I have seen shafts crack at the roll pin hole.

@Dave_Darling
[/quote]

The one on mine snapped apart into 3 separate pieces, sheared straight through it.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-18880-1553471579.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-18880-1553471580.2.jpg)

I ended up doing the bolt method instead since it sheared just as I was starting my car and would have left me stranded at work with no other way to drive home. Thankfully work stocks a large supply of Grade 8 1/4" bolts.

To its credit though, I'm using a fairly heavy pressure plate from KEP's clutch/adapter kits.
[/quote]

That roll pin does not look stock to me. Not enough coils.
Do you still have the broken pin? See if you can file it to test hardness.

That type of failure could also be caused by a loose fittment of the shaft to the arm. I sort through arms and shafts to get the tightest combo to reduce the shear on the pin.
[/quote]

[jcd914]

The Weltmeister kits used to ship with pins that were not even a full spiral. They were notorious for failing. To the point where the first question we used to ask when someone had a loose clutch pedal was, "Did you just change the pedal bushings?"

I see spiral pins in Bruce's post and in Lierofox's post. Those are not notorious for failing.

I don't know if WM finally figured out they needed a better pin, or if WM kits are even the ones being used above.

--DD

This was our experience too.
We kept OE roll pins in stock and taped a new OE pin to each Weltmeister bushing kit we stocked.

Jim