Jacking it up by the transmission???, I had a mechanic say that it is OK to... Options

[ken914]

I had a mechanic say that he likes to jack 914's by the transmission, right under the differential. (On a 914/6). I have never jacked by this point and don't really like putting the strain on the engine mounts, gear box and motor.

What do you think?? OK to jack here or asking for problems???

Thanks.

[tat2dphreak]

I've put a 2x6 across the engine and tranny and jacked the car by both, (to change the soft engine mounts in the middle) but not a direct jack to tranny connection... if you put something there to soften the connection I would think it would be ok... you aren't rally putting any strain on the engine or tranny mounts, I don't think...

[GWN7]

If it was ok to use the trans you wouldn't see that many trans with broken ears forsale. Your lifting the body weight up with the ears. Would you like to be picked up by the ears?

Tell the mechanic that a new trans case is only $1,000 when he breaks yours and he can go ahead.

Use the engine bar or suspension mounts....mabey even the jack points as those are designed to hold the weight of the car.

[redshift]

Yes, your mechanic is unclean, unwashed, and under the influence.


M

[ClayPerrine]

STEP AWAY FROM THE FLOOR JACK!!!!!!

When you jack a sideshifter 914 up by the engine/transmission, you are picking up a 2000LB car by 2 small rubber motor mounts that aren't designed to hold that much weight. Think about this:

If the motor mounts tear (and if they are old and oil soaked, they will) the weight of the car will push downward, causing the the engine and trans to pivot UP into the engine compartment. The first thing that happens is that the engine hits the underside of the body, crushing the engine tin on the back of the motor, and crushing the air cleaner assembly up against the engine lid. The lid pops open, and the engine tin on the back of the motor to crush further. Meanwile the wiring, the fuel lines and anything else that gets in between the body and the engine will be torn loose, or crushed. Underneath the heat exchangers hit the body and bend, and the shift rods are jammed into the back of the shift console, breaking the outside of the shift console off. The transmission mounts, strained beyond their design limits, either break off, or the ears on the transmission break off. Now the transmission is free from the body. The body slams down on the transmission damaging both the rear trunk and crushing the top of the muffler.


I watched this happen to a 914 owner years ago. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/barf.gif)

He ended up parting out the car.

[maf914]

Ouch! You paint a pretty convincing picture, Clay. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)

I've never jacked my car by the tranny and don't think I'll start, either! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[Allan]

What about using the engine cross bar? The reason I ask is that I have a vehicle lift at my office that is set up for higher industrial vehicles. I can't use the jack pads because the lift arms wont clear. I was wondering about driving the car up unto a couple of 2x6's to give me a little more room to slide the jack under so I can raise the car enought to clear the lift arms.

[tat2dphreak]

ok, don't listen to what I said, mine was a specialized case... I'm dumb... I needed to replace the soft engine mounts and also install the side-shift bar, so, I had the car on jack stands, and then held the engine and tranny in place with the jack and a board, so I could pull the engine bar and replace the soft mounts.

[ClayPerrine]

QUOTE (Headrage @ Jun 23 2005, 08:45 AM)

What about using the engine cross bar? The reason I ask is that I have a vehicle lift at my office that is set up for higher industrial vehicles. I can't use the jack pads because the lift arms wont clear. I was wondering about driving the car up unto a couple of 2x6's to give me a little more room to slide the jack under so I can raise the car enought to clear the lift arms.

Tailshifter: NO. The tailshifter has the motor mounts on the outboard ends. You won't get the catastrophic failure I described, but it could still tear the mounts.

Sideshifter: Yes. There is a steel mount between the bar and the body. It will hold the weight of the car. I have even seen 914s on lifts held up by the side shifte bar.

Personally, I wouldn't do it that way. If you have it sitting on the engine bar, how do you remove the engine???? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[Allan]

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Jun 23 2005, 07:55 AM)

If you have it sitting on the engine bar, how do you remove the engine???? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

Actually, once the lift arms are under the jack pads, the jack would be removed and the whole car will be suspended by the lift. Like this.

[Joe Ricard]

I do it all the time. However my trans mounts are not stock. Come to think of it niether are my engine mounts.

I can not only hear a loose valve I can feel it. If I break an ear off I got another one. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[nocones]

Okay,

So here's the painfully obvious question...
What are the approved jacking points on a 914?
What is the easiest way to get either one end, or both ends onto jack stands?
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[Joe Ricard]

Front 1st, 2x4 under and across the A-arm mounts . Floor jack in the center of board. Chock the rear wheels

I go to the back and use the transaxle. (However some here dis agree). Jackstands under the donuts four points. I use a wood block under the pads to give the new jackstands a good surface to sit on.

[morph]

ive jacked up my 914 for 20 years by the center of the tranny,never hurt it,or the car.but thats me,what do i know,i have been around alot of 914s over the years and never seen any falure due to jacking up the car,at the tranny.
james

[Mueller]

QUOTE (morphenspectra @ Jun 23 2005, 10:11 AM)

ive jacked up my 914 for 20 years by the center of the tranny,never hurt it,or the car.but thats me,what do i know,i have been around alot of 914s over the years and never seen any falure due to jacking up the car,at the tranny. james

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

if all the correct hardware is there for the mounts, the most they could move if the rubber completley failed is about 1/2"

the car Clay mentions must have been a huge POS with other issues (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[ClayPerrine]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 23 2005, 12:10 PM)

QUOTE (morphenspectra @ Jun 23 2005, 10:11 AM) ive jacked up my 914 for 20 years by the center of the tranny,never hurt it,or the car.but thats me,what do i know,i have been around alot of 914s over the years and never seen any falure due to jacking up the car,at the tranny. james (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) if all the correct hardware is there for the mounts, the most they could move if the rubber completley failed is about 1/2" the car Clay mentions must have been a huge POS with other issues (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

If you look at the picture, sideshifter mounts are a round block of rubber with a metal plate and stud bonded to each side.

Sideshifter mounts.

That's why when the mounts break, the shift lever starts moving. The front of the motor is jumping upward under accelleration.

If they break with the whole weight of the car hanging on them, you get the failure I described. There is absolutely nothing to retain the engine if the mount fails other than gravity. If the car is hanging downward off the mount, then gravity is going to pull it downward.



I was about 50 feet away when it happened. It was not a preety site. And the car was not a POS. It was a nice daily driver black on black 74 1.8. I still have some of the parts from it.

Honestly, if there is even a chance that this could happen, why risk it? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

Take a few minutes more and jack it up by the jack points. Better safe than sorry.

[Mueller]

oh the "front" mounts broke??? my bad (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

yea, I never thought the stress those have on them while.......

[redshift]

I figure the people who put my car together had a pretty good idea where to lift the car from... one hole on each side, and four donuts..

6 choices, that translate to 12 other thoughtful combos, and you guys pick the transaxle..

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)


M

[airsix]

I jack directly under the tranny ears. This places no force on the forward engine mounts as would be the case if you jacked from the diff-cover or further forward. The force on the tranny mounts is a compression force, not a pulling force. Again no worries. This also places the lifting force on the same casting as the mounts, so you are not chaining the load across the bolted-together tranny pieces. If you examine the webbing of the tranny ears you will see they are designed to have the most strength in the vertical plane. Broken tranny ears result from collisions which place forces on the ears in the horizontal plane. I've been jacking the directly under the ears since 1992 with no damage to mounts or trannys.

-Ben M.

[J P Stein]

I'm with stupid (above).....right below the ears.....on the tranny, I'm stupid above the ears. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)