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> Low oil pressure - oil pump a workable fix?
Tdskip
post Apr 18 2019, 02:21 PM
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Yeah, yeah, I know. It's not likely the oil pump but humor me.

The red aka turbo car is showing low oil pressure. It has a front mounted oil cooler and some sort of big bore engine. Oil level is full cold and when hot.

When cold my oil pressure is good, when hot it isn't.

I'm under 10 PSI per 1000 RPM hot.

I don't have a history on the engine.

I am running 20w50, Mahle filter.

I have not put a mechanical gauge on it but it is already running a retrofitted VDO oil pressure gauge.

Goal is to get another summer out of driving it if I can.

I supposed it wouldn't hurt to try a mechanical gauge and heavier weight oil, but is there a chance it is the oil pump rather than bearings?
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crash914
post Apr 18 2019, 02:23 PM
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no, its the bearings. blew up my motor with the same symptoms.
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dr914@autoatlanta.com
post Apr 18 2019, 02:31 PM
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I agree would be the bearings, probably rod bearings first, but cannot hurt to make sure that the engine is running at 190-205 F with straight 40 Weight oil



QUOTE(crash914 @ Apr 18 2019, 01:23 PM) *

no, its the bearings. blew up my motor with the same symptoms.

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Tdskip
post Apr 18 2019, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE(crash914 @ Apr 18 2019, 03:23 PM) *

no, its the bearings. blew up my motor with the same symptoms.


Darn it - enough with the good information! Tell me I need blinker fluid or something simple...
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sixnotfour
post Apr 18 2019, 02:40 PM
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pull the sump screen and run your finger around in the case , hope you done get a sliver
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Tdskip
post Apr 18 2019, 02:45 PM
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If it is the bearings, which probably is the case, that’s a full engine rebuild at that point, correct?
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kahluver
post Apr 18 2019, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE(Tdskip @ Apr 18 2019, 01:45 PM) *

If it is the bearings, which probably is the case, that’s a full engine rebuild at that point, correct?


Afraid so. Gotta pull it all apart to replace bearings.
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Tdskip
post Apr 18 2019, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE(kahluver @ Apr 18 2019, 03:59 PM) *

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Apr 18 2019, 01:45 PM) *

If it is the bearings, which probably is the case, that’s a full engine rebuild at that point, correct?


Afraid so. Gotta pull it all apart to replace bearings.


Thanks - it is what it is. Might be time to dust off that 3.2l engine. The remaining bits that I need to buy to do that conversion will probably be close to the cost I’m having this thing rebuilt.
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jcd914
post Apr 18 2019, 06:06 PM
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Test, don't guess.

Test the pressure with a gauge you know to be accurate.
Then if it does really have low oil pressure look at possible causes before you condemn the engine outright.

A stuck oil pressure relief valve that does not seat well could create the symptoms you are seeing. Chris at Tangerine Racing makes a replacement oil pressure relief valve that addresses the poor seating problem these cases and relief valves have.

Jim
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Tdskip
post Apr 18 2019, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE(jcd914 @ Apr 18 2019, 07:06 PM) *

Test, don't guess.

Test the pressure with a gauge you know to be accurate.
Then if it does really have low oil pressure look at possible causes before you condemn the engine outright.

A stuck oil pressure relief valve that does not seat well could create the symptoms you are seeing. Chris at Tangerine Racing makes a replacement oil pressure relief valve that addresses the poor seating problem these cases and relief valves have.

Jim



Well that seems like good advice - let me get a gauge on it.

How do you confirm if the oil pressyre relief valve is an issue?
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jcd914
post Apr 18 2019, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE(Tdskip @ Apr 18 2019, 05:11 PM) *

QUOTE(jcd914 @ Apr 18 2019, 07:06 PM) *

Test, don't guess.

Test the pressure with a gauge you know to be accurate.
Then if it does really have low oil pressure look at possible causes before you condemn the engine outright.

A stuck oil pressure relief valve that does not seat well could create the symptoms you are seeing. Chris at Tangerine Racing makes a replacement oil pressure relief valve that addresses the poor seating problem these cases and relief valves have.

Jim



Well that seems like good advice - let me get a gauge on it.

How do you confirm if the oil pressyre relief valve is an issue?


It is a bit subjective but if the pressure is low I would pull the pressure reilif valve and inspect ir and the bore and seating surface in the case. There is a machines step in the bore in the case that is not always in good shape. You may be able clean the bore of the oil and and see wear marks where the valve seats and evaluate if it is seating well or not. You may need ot use some bluing or dye to see the seating surfaces and evaluate the seal. Also the bore waers and the relief valve can stick in the bore so it does not move as intended.

Jim
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porschetub
post Apr 19 2019, 11:10 PM
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[quote name='jcd914' date='Apr 19 2019, 12:24 PM' post='2706582']
[quote name='Tdskip' post='2706574' date='Apr 18 2019, 05:11 PM']
[quote name='jcd914' post='2706569' date='Apr 18 2019, 07:06 PM']
Test, don't guess.

Test the pressure with a gauge you know to be accurate.
Then if it does really have low oil pressure look at possible causes before you condemn the engine outright.

A stuck oil pressure relief valve that does not seat well could create the symptoms you are seeing. Chris at Tangerine Racing makes a replacement oil pressure relief valve that addresses the poor seating problem these cases and relief valves have.

Jim
[/quote]


Well that seems like good advice - let me get a gauge on it.

How do you confirm if the oil pressyre relief valve is an issue?
[/quote

No point in condemning this motor to quickly.OP needs to fit a gauge straight off the engine as mentioned.
The following should be looked @ ;
Is the engine clean,
is the timing spot on,
is the motor in tune ? values done recently,
is the thermostat for the cooler working correctly,
is the cooling system working as it should,
The above listed have a lot to with oil temp with ends up being oil pressure !!!.
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Tdskip
post Apr 20 2019, 07:13 AM
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Thanks gentlemen, I’ll slow down and do a better check. My hunch is that it is toast but maybe not!
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Tdskip
post May 3 2019, 03:18 PM
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So I picked up a replacement oil pressure relief spring, from what I’ve learned from you all it’s probably not a bad thing to have on hand anyway.

I believe the cover for this is located next to the oil filter on the bottom of the engine, correct?

Will this cover and screw readily with just a long screwdriver or do I need to remove the oil filter to get better access?

Not my car but I believe this is what the cover looks like, correct?

Thanks!
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dr914@autoatlanta.com
post May 3 2019, 03:20 PM
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yes and the other one through 74 is in the relief on the left drivers side of the block
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Tdskip
post May 3 2019, 06:23 PM
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Thanks George.

To install a mechanical oil gauge to test the oil pressure I simply remove the oil pressure sender in the taco plate?

Thanks!
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porschetub
post May 3 2019, 06:25 PM
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It will be tight,find the widest blade screwdriver you can to fit the slot.
In my collection of "make do" custom tools I have an old 19mm wood chisel ground to fit the slot for T1,T4 and 911 motors,never failed me,remember to hit upwards on the plug it will free some tension ,good luck.
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Dave_Darling
post May 3 2019, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE(Tdskip @ May 3 2019, 05:23 PM) *

To install a mechanical oil gauge to test the oil pressure I simply remove the oil pressure sender in the taco plate?


No. The sender in the taco plate is oil temp, not oil pressure. WOuldn't do any good to measure pressure there, it would always be zero. (The oil is just sitting there in the sump; you need to measure it in one of the oil passages that has been pressurized by the pump.)

The usual way to hook up an oil pressure gauge is to replace the oil pressure "idiot light" sender that lives near the distributor on top of the crankcase.

--DD
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Tdskip
post May 3 2019, 11:06 PM
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QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ May 3 2019, 11:49 PM) *

QUOTE(Tdskip @ May 3 2019, 05:23 PM) *

To install a mechanical oil gauge to test the oil pressure I simply remove the oil pressure sender in the taco plate?


No. The sender in the taco plate is oil temp, not oil pressure. WOuldn't do any good to measure pressure there, it would always be zero. (The oil is just sitting there in the sump; you need to measure it in one of the oil passages that has been pressurized by the pump.)

The usual way to hook up an oil pressure gauge is to replace the oil pressure "idiot light" sender that lives near the distributor on top of the crankcase.

--DD


Oops! Thanks for putting me straight on that Dave.
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Chi-town
post May 3 2019, 11:07 PM
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I popped the relief plug loose with a gentle tap on an impact driver
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